CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
Or have a Bwap in the party.
Passenger Staterooms: Single Travellers vs Couples
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I'm not sure letting the blood pool in your head on a long term basis is healthy.
In order not to bump heads, you probably have to increase the distance to a tad over four metres, and the door extend from one end to another.
In order not to bump heads, you probably have to increase the distance to a tad over four metres, and the door extend from one end to another.
In any case, the one stateroom per person is simply what the high or middle passenger is paying for. Or the officer gets as a perk.
Strictly speaking in CT every crew member of a commercial ship needed their own stateroom. That softened over various editions to it now being more likely to be double occupancy.
I blame the player characters. All the other merchant captains putting pressure on the Spacer's Union because of the unfair competitive advantage that the space murder hobos had.
Strictly speaking in CT every crew member of a commercial ship needed their own stateroom. That softened over various editions to it now being more likely to be double occupancy.
I blame the player characters. All the other merchant captains putting pressure on the Spacer's Union because of the unfair competitive advantage that the space murder hobos had.
What does the Cr1000 per person per month life support actually mean anyway?
1 DTon of biosphere replaces twice that. I presumed originally that the extra per stateroom was a luxury supplement, but why would an empty stateroom need to have life support replenished?. It isn't maintenance as you are paying that already in the same way as any ships component adds 1/1000 of it's cost to the maintenace bill.
Sounds like some shady double accounting by the Spacer's Union to me.
1 DTon of biosphere replaces twice that. I presumed originally that the extra per stateroom was a luxury supplement, but why would an empty stateroom need to have life support replenished?. It isn't maintenance as you are paying that already in the same way as any ships component adds 1/1000 of it's cost to the maintenace bill.
Sounds like some shady double accounting by the Spacer's Union to me.
Well, unless you're going to deactivate the stateroom and remove it from the aircon, the plumbing, the gravity and the power grid (and feel free to do so with unused staterooms to reduce expenses!), there's some running costs right there.
I've always taken it to just be the cost of the occupied space in total. There's no base life support cost for the bridge or the engineering compartment, even though those also have gravity, and air and power and possibly plumbing.
I've always taken it to just be the cost of the occupied space in total. There's no base life support cost for the bridge or the engineering compartment, even though those also have gravity, and air and power and possibly plumbing.
Power is just power and that is already accounted for in fuel costs. The cost is tens of credits even if using refined fuel (which is only needed for jump engines). If you don't use a tap it doesn't use water, there is no need to disconnect it. A stateroom full of air is a reservoir. If you don't use it, it doesn't get consumed. Air will be much more carefully managed on a space ship than on a terrestrial vessel, the ability to isolate the air supply to a staterooms would seem to be a basic function as both a fire/smoke control and breaching/contamination protection.
Given the tight budget ships are run on it seems incomprehensible that you wouldn't be monitoring and controlling usage of consumables very carefully.
That would explain the Cr1000 per person. It is irrelevant whether they are in their stateroom or on the bridge, they consume air (which presumably needs filters or bottled oxygen or something), water and food. I am ok with that, but I am not sure what the extra costs for staterooms are. If high passengers has a higher life support cost (representing fine foods and drink and possibly special scented air) I would understand, but they get the same as everyone else.
It is not universally applied either. Acceleration seats don't factor in life support, they are supposed to be for short occupation, but that is still up to 24 hours. The Lifeboat in the Small Craft Catalogue has 20 of them (plus 10 low berths). It is designed for "keeping the people on board alive for months if need be." It has 32 weeks of fuel to run the power plant, but no money or space allocated for food, water or packaged air. Now you can survive without food for months, water less so and without air you will be dead in short order. I am sure there are other examples if you care to look. Interestingly the Life Support module from that book indicates that food is not a component of life support (I tended to assume that life support meant air and heat).
Barracks cost twice as much per DTon as a Stateroom but you would expect the facilities to be even more spartan there as it is classed as Basic at best. High and Luxury staterooms have higher per room costs, which could be explained away as higher quality foods etc. but that cost is not applied to high passengers in normal staterooms. The Brig can support 12 people for only an extra KCr1 per month.
I can just handwave it off, but I know my players are going to ask about cutting corners at some point, and I'd like to have something better than "it's the rules".
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It's a holdover for days of yore.
You actually needed sufficient staterooms to have sufficient life support for everyone on board.
I suppose that's how they knew stowaways were onboard, when the air got thinner.
You actually needed sufficient staterooms to have sufficient life support for everyone on board.
I suppose that's how they knew stowaways were onboard, when the air got thinner.
Just go with what I said. Any pressurised and temperature controlled area is part of the overall costs. That applies to buildings, to aircraft, to spacecraft. Cleaning costs likely apply - dust builds up, things grow in out of the way corners. An empty building with the aircon, heating, plumbing and power left on has a base running cost. Or, more relevant, one with 50% occupancy has the same base running costs as one with 100% occupancy, but less per person costs.
The baseline for livable space in a Traveller spacecraft has traditionally been based on the number of staterooms. So it makes sense to me that all those corridors and living spaces that the staterooms contribute to have running costs as well. If you have unused staterooms and really want to save Cr250 a week, seal them up and take them offline. The extra space side of things may explain the base life support of Barracks being double per ton compared to a roomier 6 square Stateroom and 2 square corridoor. Barracks are all beds and bathrooms, not as much open space.
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You could centralize life support.
Further thought on it all.
The per person cost is clearly covering the food and water and air and other consumables actually consumed by the person, including recycling costs and most of any cleaning and laundry costs. Possibly some wear and tear too. Sometimes those sheets need burning.
The per stateroom cost per maintenance period is probably mostly made up of actually maintaining the life support equipment itself, quite probably to do with central air and water reprocessors, and with the air circulation machinery and plumbing that services those. (That explains why there's negligible cost for simple benches and couches). But even an empty stateroom has pipes and wiring and water reservoirs and air conditioning equipment.
Essentially, from this viewpoint, the base rate life support cost represents the overhead of keeping the entire ships life support capacity running, over and above the 0.1% per annum maintenance costs. In other words, it appears life support is more expensive to keep running than guns or engines. Which has a certain logic to it, I think.
I've suggested shutting down an unused stateroom to save costs, but that would also mean sealing it off from any central water and air processing, which might not be easy to do just like that. And bringing it back online would requires at the very least an overhaul and thorough cleaning.
The per person cost is clearly covering the food and water and air and other consumables actually consumed by the person, including recycling costs and most of any cleaning and laundry costs. Possibly some wear and tear too. Sometimes those sheets need burning.
The per stateroom cost per maintenance period is probably mostly made up of actually maintaining the life support equipment itself, quite probably to do with central air and water reprocessors, and with the air circulation machinery and plumbing that services those. (That explains why there's negligible cost for simple benches and couches). But even an empty stateroom has pipes and wiring and water reservoirs and air conditioning equipment.
Essentially, from this viewpoint, the base rate life support cost represents the overhead of keeping the entire ships life support capacity running, over and above the 0.1% per annum maintenance costs. In other words, it appears life support is more expensive to keep running than guns or engines. Which has a certain logic to it, I think.
I've suggested shutting down an unused stateroom to save costs, but that would also mean sealing it off from any central water and air processing, which might not be easy to do just like that. And bringing it back online would requires at the very least an overhaul and thorough cleaning.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Now they just need to change the book so that it doesn't say that food is part of the per Stateroom life support instead of the per Passenger life support. lol
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
We know how much we have to spend per square.
That's a hard number.
Within stateroom allocation, the variable cost is per, presumably, default adult human, passenger.
Which leaves open whether this figure includes other forms of accommodation, and passenger volume, whether rugrat or cow.
That's a hard number.
Within stateroom allocation, the variable cost is per, presumably, default adult human, passenger.
Which leaves open whether this figure includes other forms of accommodation, and passenger volume, whether rugrat or cow.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
How much does noodles cost?
boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
no it's not the stateroom life support NEVER mentions inhabitants at all, the STATEROOM requires the Cr.1000 the people require separate Cr.1000 there is no VARIABLE cost for staterooms, zero, nil. nada, zip. all the other forms of accomodation have their Maint Period LS costs listed (except acceleration couches, which therefore do not have one.)
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Life Support Cr1000 per stateroom, Cr100 per low berth, Cr1000 per person
Which effectively makes it a per person cost. These would all be possible reasons, except we have dirt cheap equipment in the CSC and droids in the RH that cover these functions with no ongoing cost once they are purchased.It appears to be based around Cr500 per potential bed.
Maybe it IS mostly laundry?
I think I am going to have to just accept that Cr2000 per person was chosen out of the air yonks ago, it has no logic other than as a cash sink for players. All later iterations flow from that adding unnecessary complication on top and adding extra expenses without addressing the underlying logic. Arbitrarily amending the revenue for passengers just makes the equation different for other random reasons.
For room life-support I am just going to consider it living area servicing and not detail it in any way. Maybe those droids and equipment can offset 1/50th of their cost per month in servicing costs. At least the they'll pay for themselves in around 5 years.
I see that the old beltstrike gave more detail and it has long been debated exactly how you can justify that cost when it is all fairly easily and cheaply managed. Having worked in a service industry I'll just have to chalk it up to "guest wreck rooms" - and people in barracks wreck them more. Do you want to save the service cost by clearing up the vomit in the sink yourself or the pee in the bed or do you just want to pay the star port fixed rate tariff and go off and do something more profitable, exciting and less "ick".
I will just house rule that you only pay the room cost for occupied rooms.
