Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Possibly prepared, prepacked, reheated.
To be fair, maybe sandwiches and carbonated water.
To be fair, maybe sandwiches and carbonated water.
Passenger Staterooms: Single Travellers vs Couples
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
- Start date
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I am saying that the only places it mentions food is in the stateroom life support cost and in the biosphere description. So, the food is in the stateroom cost. That is one of the reasons High and Luxury staterooms have higher life support costs. I am saying that Middle Passage food isn't very good in Charted Space. You want better food, pay for a better ticket, just like on airlines, trains, and cruise ships today.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Or, the steward goes around in a food cart, and you pay for a meal.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
The food in first class and the food in coach are not the same...lol...
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Current ratio is one steward per hundred middle passengers.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
1 per 10 High Passage
1 each for Luxury Passage
boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
Except according to your argument, neither High or Luxury staterooms provide any food for their passengers as it's not mentioned in the life support costs for those staterooms...
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Exactly. That is why I said it had to be rewritten. What they have currently makes no logical sense.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Really rich or self important people have entourages.
Stewards are more for between that class level, and low berth.
Stewards are more for between that class level, and low berth.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I would just like the rules to make sense. As they are written currently, if I have 4 Travellers in single-occupancy Staterooms, their tickets (26,000Cr) pay for 8,000Cr in life support. If I have 2 tons of Biosphere it becomes 4,000Cr of life support or no Cr of life support. Here it doesn't matter one way or the other if you remove the stateroom life support or the individual life support. It comes out the same. If those same 4 guys are in double-occupancy staterooms, their tickets (19,500Cr) pay for 6,000Cr in life support. If I have 2 tons of Biosphere it becomes either 4,000Cr of life support or 2,000Cr of life support, or no CR of life support.
boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
Biosphere does not affect the life support cost of quarters, so you will still be paying the cost for however many staterooms you are using, those cost variations make perfect sense, it even says in the rulebooks that cheap ships captains will be using double occupancy staterooms, THIS is the explanation of why they would. (Bold is mine as this is contrary to the rules)
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
It includes food. The only life support costs that say that they are for food, are the Stateroom life support costs.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
In the end comes down to volume, for spacecraft design.
Then, asphyxiation.
I haven't figured out if you're supposed to freeze, or fry, in a spacecraft.
Then, asphyxiation.
I haven't figured out if you're supposed to freeze, or fry, in a spacecraft.
boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
at the temperatures involved, it's effectively the same thing
I think we are just suffering from cut and paste form previous iterations.
The per stateroom cost "covers supplies for the life support system as well as food and water, although meals at this level will be rather spartan.". I am taking this to mean there is enough pre-packaged and probably preserved food (instant noodles etc.) provided to survive and passengers traditionally loot them for souvenirs "and because I paid for it" on departure so they always need replacing. The variant levels of per room cost reflect higher or low standards.
If food costs are only stateroom costs then double occupants eat, drink and breath half as much as single occupants. Basic passengers that are in stowage, do not eat, drink or breathe at all. This seems illogical, and if the room cost covers all that then what is the per passenger cost for?
A way it could work with rules as written is that the per passenger cost also covers food, drink and air as well, but this is more likely the hot meals prepared (or likely re-heated in the case of standard passengers) by the steward.
As for air (CRB p82):
"A spacecraft or self-contained, sealed structure with power can usually sustain life support for one person per stateroom for one month comfortably, and for six months at a stretch (number of staterooms x 5,000 person/hours). Without power, this drops to two weeks at most."
So as written most of your air supply is recycled from scrubbers (rather than bottled) and their main overhead is power (which is cheap). With no staterooms (and I must presume we are extending this to any other accommodation, since HG introduced the other forms of accommodation, CRB has nothing to reference against). There is also likely a consumable element in the stateroom (filters etc).
As for food: For a person to be self sufficient growing food requires about 50 square meters per person (says at least some of the internet). 1 Dton is around 5 square meters, so either the plants are massively more nutritious than today (I can see a 5 fold increase in productivity as a credible extension, but not a 20 fold increase) or they are stacked and racked (or more likely both). I think people have imagined parks with trees or something like Silent Running, but it is more likely to be high density enclosed farming like a drug farm.
I think we are just going to have to interpret as we will, defining it seems to create more problems than it solves.
The per stateroom cost "covers supplies for the life support system as well as food and water, although meals at this level will be rather spartan.". I am taking this to mean there is enough pre-packaged and probably preserved food (instant noodles etc.) provided to survive and passengers traditionally loot them for souvenirs "and because I paid for it" on departure so they always need replacing. The variant levels of per room cost reflect higher or low standards.
If food costs are only stateroom costs then double occupants eat, drink and breath half as much as single occupants. Basic passengers that are in stowage, do not eat, drink or breathe at all. This seems illogical, and if the room cost covers all that then what is the per passenger cost for?
A way it could work with rules as written is that the per passenger cost also covers food, drink and air as well, but this is more likely the hot meals prepared (or likely re-heated in the case of standard passengers) by the steward.
As for air (CRB p82):
"A spacecraft or self-contained, sealed structure with power can usually sustain life support for one person per stateroom for one month comfortably, and for six months at a stretch (number of staterooms x 5,000 person/hours). Without power, this drops to two weeks at most."
So as written most of your air supply is recycled from scrubbers (rather than bottled) and their main overhead is power (which is cheap). With no staterooms (and I must presume we are extending this to any other accommodation, since HG introduced the other forms of accommodation, CRB has nothing to reference against). There is also likely a consumable element in the stateroom (filters etc).
As for food: For a person to be self sufficient growing food requires about 50 square meters per person (says at least some of the internet). 1 Dton is around 5 square meters, so either the plants are massively more nutritious than today (I can see a 5 fold increase in productivity as a credible extension, but not a 20 fold increase) or they are stacked and racked (or more likely both). I think people have imagined parks with trees or something like Silent Running, but it is more likely to be high density enclosed farming like a drug farm.
I think we are just going to have to interpret as we will, defining it seems to create more problems than it solves.
Last edited:
boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
easiest solution is to strike out the word food in the Stateroom description. no other changes required
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
One issue would be scaling.
The economics and logistics differ between a cruise ship, and a tramp steamer.
The economics and logistics differ between a cruise ship, and a tramp steamer.
Easiest is only to apply the room cost to occupied staterooms. I cannot find where it says you pay that cost even if the room is unoccupied (Low explicitly says per occupied berth so it may be it is being inferred.
