New Ships - What Would You Like to See?
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
Including EMW, there are nine different versions of the Hyperion. Yep, EA has far too many ship types. Only four- base, G'Lan, G'Tal, G'Quonth- of the G'Quan though. So far.
ACtA has no readily identifiable 'ground' scale; we're either talking thousands of kilometres per table inch or possibly two to four. No definite word on how long a round or campaign turn lasts, either.
As for converging technologies- what else do you expect? People are going to do whatever works. 'Pretty much the same' is a far better deal than 'exactly the same- all charred debris looks alike.'
The EA and Minbari fleets could easily recapitulate real naval history- or if they don't they dam' well ought to. The humble torpedo boat, circa 1900 or thereabouts. Special weaponry that demanded little in the way of structural or seakeeping qualities, very cheap- and a moral threat to the huge, expensive battleships of the day, which were only getting bigger, clumsier and more vulnerable.
Anybody spotting a parallel with Skirmish and Patrol vs. War and Armageddon levels yet?
So, back in the real world, these dinosaur navies thought hard, and decided to extend their scale downwards, designing the bare minimum sea- going ship, virtually unarmoured, very fast, lots of light, quick firing guns to keep the torpedo boats off, but capable of operating with the fleet. They called it the Torpedo Boat Destroyer, soon simply shortened to 'Destroyer.' Then some bright spark realised they had accidentally invented the perfect torpedo platform, and the way fleets operated changed radically as it became painfully obvious that the battlewagons were now less dangerous and far less able to take risks and behave agressively than their escorts.
Too many big ships, already.
ACtA has no readily identifiable 'ground' scale; we're either talking thousands of kilometres per table inch or possibly two to four. No definite word on how long a round or campaign turn lasts, either.
As for converging technologies- what else do you expect? People are going to do whatever works. 'Pretty much the same' is a far better deal than 'exactly the same- all charred debris looks alike.'
The EA and Minbari fleets could easily recapitulate real naval history- or if they don't they dam' well ought to. The humble torpedo boat, circa 1900 or thereabouts. Special weaponry that demanded little in the way of structural or seakeeping qualities, very cheap- and a moral threat to the huge, expensive battleships of the day, which were only getting bigger, clumsier and more vulnerable.
Anybody spotting a parallel with Skirmish and Patrol vs. War and Armageddon levels yet?
So, back in the real world, these dinosaur navies thought hard, and decided to extend their scale downwards, designing the bare minimum sea- going ship, virtually unarmoured, very fast, lots of light, quick firing guns to keep the torpedo boats off, but capable of operating with the fleet. They called it the Torpedo Boat Destroyer, soon simply shortened to 'Destroyer.' Then some bright spark realised they had accidentally invented the perfect torpedo platform, and the way fleets operated changed radically as it became painfully obvious that the battlewagons were now less dangerous and far less able to take risks and behave agressively than their escorts.
Too many big ships, already.
And now for something completely different :shock:
Cascor Fleet
Make all Rich Bax's stuff Offical
More Raiders and Generic Non-combatants
Shadow Scout
Gaim Fleet
More League hulls in general
Drazi Eyehawk/Stareagle/Kestral and maybe even the Robin
Pak'ma'ra Fleet
Abbai Jucaya(I can't spell either but it's close)
Liandra and Valen for ISA
Space stations for all races as well as OSATS and Jump Gates
Technomage ships
Cascor Fleet
Make all Rich Bax's stuff Offical
More Raiders and Generic Non-combatants
Shadow Scout
Gaim Fleet
More League hulls in general
Drazi Eyehawk/Stareagle/Kestral and maybe even the Robin
Pak'ma'ra Fleet
Abbai Jucaya(I can't spell either but it's close)
Liandra and Valen for ISA
Space stations for all races as well as OSATS and Jump Gates
Technomage ships
Twin-Linked Aldades
Mongoose
A jump gate and a debris field can be made really, really easy though, even if your all thumbs. I got ours somewhere on these fora, but for easiness sake, here they are again:
Basically 4 curatinrail profile pieces, connected by some rod and plasticard `fins`
A base, add a hump of greenstuff, cut op some small ships you won`t be using anyways (it has an old large scale Flyer, 2 romulans, a few Starblazer Gaim, and even the metal pieces where mongoose`s turrets are attached to) and stuff them in the greenstuff. `Pockmark` the greenstuff with an old toothbrush.
All there is to it actually...
Basically 4 curatinrail profile pieces, connected by some rod and plasticard `fins`
A base, add a hump of greenstuff, cut op some small ships you won`t be using anyways (it has an old large scale Flyer, 2 romulans, a few Starblazer Gaim, and even the metal pieces where mongoose`s turrets are attached to) and stuff them in the greenstuff. `Pockmark` the greenstuff with an old toothbrush.
All there is to it actually...
ShadowScout
Mongoose
OK, the old question... what do I want? (miniature-wise that is)
> Civilian Vessels, and not only EA. From the small transports we see docking on B5 (mini ought to be half a whitestar in size or so) to minbari, narn, centauri, brakiri, etc. versions of freighters and passenger ships (and of course all those minis could also have an Raider version with jury-rigged armament too... the raiders really need more ships, but not effective ships - after all, they are pirates and terrorists, not a real navy, and as such should have converted civilian vessels instead of purpose-built warships, with all the drawbacks that entails). These minis would be usable in both the RPG (where they will be the most encountered hulls in any case) and CtA (where they are really nice as "objectives" - defending weak-hulled freighters is a lot harder then winning a straight fight!) Good ideas can be found in AoG's supplements: Bulk Freighter, Ore Barge, Passenger Liner to finish the Ea-type civilians, and then give just about each alien fleet at least one big (think big juicy target for raiders to hit and for escorts to defend) and one small (think smuggler/blockade runner type vessel a la "Corellian YT-1300", "Firefly class transport" or the B5 equivalent of the "Skylark Transport" aka "7tango7" or simply "green ship" - see S&P-15 as "Lightbringer") civilian too... well, except those who do no trading or have no civilian ships, like the ancients, Drakh (though those could use the "plague tanker" from the "Call to Arms" movie... hell, they could use a complete redesign IMO!) or the Dilgar (who should have only military transports). For the Pak'ma'ra it might even be a good idea to redesign their whole fleet as "armed freighters".
> and to match these, Shuttles! So far I have only Minbari Flyers, and I for one would like to get at least one shuttle for every race (two for those like the EA with two shuttle designs, atmospheric and non-a.). Maybe also breaching pods (though that could be combined for almosr every race -except the EA where we have seen on the show that they have purpose-built BP's- by stating their shuttles have a "belly hatch" equipped with a magnetic seal and thus can be used as BP's too!)
> more Missing Ships. For one to finish the existing fleets (most league fleets need more small "escort and patrol type" ships and for some an additional "cruiser-type" hull instead of overpriced supership minis, but even some of the large fleets need one ort wo more vessels). Taking another look at AoG's list of unmade miniatures would be a good thing here:
- Abbai Skiatha, Lyata and Tulati would be nice to round out their fleet;
- Brakiri could really use a Devaskar and Kabrik, maybe also Antoph and Rakarta;
- Drazi really need a StarEagle, and a Kestrel would be nice too;
- Dilgar could use a nice Senschuka mini for their fleet; and maybe even a Jorthun cutter!
- EA need only Earthforce One. Nothing more for now...
- Gaim... well, they arte a special case. Personally I hope Mongoose redoes them completely one day, and gives them their own fleet!
- Interstellar Alliance really needs the ships from ther shows. BlueStar pinnace from SiL and Liandra cutter, Enfili frigate & Valen diplomatic cruiser from LotR... then they'll be complete.
- Minbari could use a patrol ship... the Shaveen comes to mind...
- Pak'ma'ra... see above.
- Vorlons could use a transport mini that conveys the transports much smaller size as compared to the destroyer - the old AoG FA-size Vorlon DD's look really, really nice in this regard...
- Vree could use some small ships (especially such that do Not look exactly like their fighters!!!) - here it could be easy, as the AoG Fleet Action Vree were always oversized, and most could be pressed into the Mongoose line without raised eyebrows (something that makes the Xarr even more hurtful IMO as it was unneccessary - a FA Xeel or Xvell would have filled the same slot with a completely original mini!)
> more Starbases! Once the Orion was made the others should follow... from the Centauri Marcanos to the Dilgar Koratyl, from the Narn Ja'Dul to theDrazi Brostili... and while we're talking immobile objects, a Jumpgate would be a true must, as it before all else (except maybe the B5 station) is the most recognizable space structure in the whole B5 universe! (and it would be especially nice if we could get that mini with a blue and a yellow semi-transparent plastic "jump point")
> and followiong the bases, Orbital Defence Sat minis! We have nice visuals for Heavy EA sats from the show, and CGI for Narn and Minbari (from the defunct ItF game) sats; it shouldn't be hard to extrapolate something for the Centauri from their "Blockade Mines" to have distinct O-Sats for the "big four"; and then do the same for al the major races.
> "Leftover Ships" seen on the show - from Soul Hunter Collector ships to Technomage Pinnaces, if it was on the show I would like to see it as mini one day, even if they have no real fleet behind them.
And once I have all that...
> New Fleets! Especially those of races actually seen on the show (like the Golians; Grome; Hurr; Hyach; Ipsha; Llort; Lumati; Markab; Moradi; Streib; Thrakallans; and Yolu), but also those only mentioned somewhere (like the Alacans; Antareans; Balosians; Belt Alliance; Cascor; Corillani; Deneth; Descari; Kor-Lyans; Koulani; Tal-Kona'sha; Tikar; Torata; and Tokati) to finish the races we see on the Mongoose map! (though of course not every one of them will need their own minis - some might use converted hulls bought from other powers, especially some of the "one-system" races; while many others will have only two or three hull designs...)
> Ancients! Full fleets for the Walkers, Kirishiac, Thirdspace aliens and "the Hand", etc.
(BtW, did anyone notice Mongoose dropped the ball in regards to them in their Armageddon supplement? Yees, they mixed up the "Thoughtforce" and "Lordship"!!! Meaning we have a "Lordship" description with the "Thoughtforce" picture on p.76 and vica versa on the next page! And not only once, on p.53 the picture text calls the Lordship in the asteroid field a Thoughtforce too! I am beginning to suspect whoever is responsible for this has never seen the show, because if so, he or she mightnhave remembered that the "grey mountain looking ship" fired pulse-type weapons and thus must be the Thoughtforce, while the "round, yellow ship with the orbiting segments" proved to be the Lordship - it even sys so in the descriuption just above the picture...)
> Historical Ships! From old EA hulls (just ask Rich Bax and the rest of the old HRT) to ancient Centauri vessels and Orieni to fight with, from ships that fought Valen's War to the fleets of the forgotten Garmak Empire... (of course, that would be a far future project, as they have enough to do with the current stuff...)
And finally... what I would really want (but know I am unlikely to get) would be redesigned minis for:
- Ships with holes in their bellies like the Avenger, Neshatan, Morshin, Troligan or Shafab/Moas once it gets released (all it needs it sculpting a fitting bottom plate)
- Ships that are very much incorrectly sized (I don't mind a little - like the Warlock or Cronos -should be bigger by about 20-30%-), like the Olympus (should be smaller, about 65%... or reclassified as hyperion-sized capital-ship light carrier to justify it's size; there is a precedent as we have a scene in ItB where a O. is alone in deep space with fighter cover), Raider Carrier and Passenger Liner (ditto, about 50-60% - I mean, look at the fighters at the carrier and compare then to hangar openings in All other minis!), as well as Civilian Freighter & Tanker (same size problem - compare to the scene in "Points of Departure", or compare the circular command section to the same section on the Hyperion mini - that ought to give an idea of how big the civilians should be)
- and finally, Ships that simply look like shit. Or don't look like in the show. Or both. And by that I am afraid I mean just about the whole Drakh fleet... (raiders shoud be smaller - they were about half the size of WhiteStars in the show, while the rest of the fleet ought to be redone to match their appereance in the show - or at the very least adjusted so things match again. I mean, if we had a "Attack Ship" that looked like in Crusade, a part where the current "Fast Destroyer" fails, we could have the current "Light Cruiser" as "Destroyer" and keep the rest...) As for the "look like shit" part... well, by that I mean clumsy shaping, lack of detail, or mismatching details (like "exposed combustion engine block" thingies on B5 ships like we saw on the Brivoki or Neroon)... so far there are none in my collection, though the pictures of the upcoming Armageddon minis... well, we'll see. I reserve judgement until I can examine the actual minis themselves. In any case, if the minis cost a fortune I expect them to be up to standards set by AoG in their day.
> Civilian Vessels, and not only EA. From the small transports we see docking on B5 (mini ought to be half a whitestar in size or so) to minbari, narn, centauri, brakiri, etc. versions of freighters and passenger ships (and of course all those minis could also have an Raider version with jury-rigged armament too... the raiders really need more ships, but not effective ships - after all, they are pirates and terrorists, not a real navy, and as such should have converted civilian vessels instead of purpose-built warships, with all the drawbacks that entails). These minis would be usable in both the RPG (where they will be the most encountered hulls in any case) and CtA (where they are really nice as "objectives" - defending weak-hulled freighters is a lot harder then winning a straight fight!) Good ideas can be found in AoG's supplements: Bulk Freighter, Ore Barge, Passenger Liner to finish the Ea-type civilians, and then give just about each alien fleet at least one big (think big juicy target for raiders to hit and for escorts to defend) and one small (think smuggler/blockade runner type vessel a la "Corellian YT-1300", "Firefly class transport" or the B5 equivalent of the "Skylark Transport" aka "7tango7" or simply "green ship" - see S&P-15 as "Lightbringer") civilian too... well, except those who do no trading or have no civilian ships, like the ancients, Drakh (though those could use the "plague tanker" from the "Call to Arms" movie... hell, they could use a complete redesign IMO!) or the Dilgar (who should have only military transports). For the Pak'ma'ra it might even be a good idea to redesign their whole fleet as "armed freighters".
> and to match these, Shuttles! So far I have only Minbari Flyers, and I for one would like to get at least one shuttle for every race (two for those like the EA with two shuttle designs, atmospheric and non-a.). Maybe also breaching pods (though that could be combined for almosr every race -except the EA where we have seen on the show that they have purpose-built BP's- by stating their shuttles have a "belly hatch" equipped with a magnetic seal and thus can be used as BP's too!)
> more Missing Ships. For one to finish the existing fleets (most league fleets need more small "escort and patrol type" ships and for some an additional "cruiser-type" hull instead of overpriced supership minis, but even some of the large fleets need one ort wo more vessels). Taking another look at AoG's list of unmade miniatures would be a good thing here:
- Abbai Skiatha, Lyata and Tulati would be nice to round out their fleet;
- Brakiri could really use a Devaskar and Kabrik, maybe also Antoph and Rakarta;
- Drazi really need a StarEagle, and a Kestrel would be nice too;
- Dilgar could use a nice Senschuka mini for their fleet; and maybe even a Jorthun cutter!
- EA need only Earthforce One. Nothing more for now...
- Gaim... well, they arte a special case. Personally I hope Mongoose redoes them completely one day, and gives them their own fleet!
- Interstellar Alliance really needs the ships from ther shows. BlueStar pinnace from SiL and Liandra cutter, Enfili frigate & Valen diplomatic cruiser from LotR... then they'll be complete.
- Minbari could use a patrol ship... the Shaveen comes to mind...
- Pak'ma'ra... see above.
- Vorlons could use a transport mini that conveys the transports much smaller size as compared to the destroyer - the old AoG FA-size Vorlon DD's look really, really nice in this regard...
- Vree could use some small ships (especially such that do Not look exactly like their fighters!!!) - here it could be easy, as the AoG Fleet Action Vree were always oversized, and most could be pressed into the Mongoose line without raised eyebrows (something that makes the Xarr even more hurtful IMO as it was unneccessary - a FA Xeel or Xvell would have filled the same slot with a completely original mini!)
> more Starbases! Once the Orion was made the others should follow... from the Centauri Marcanos to the Dilgar Koratyl, from the Narn Ja'Dul to theDrazi Brostili... and while we're talking immobile objects, a Jumpgate would be a true must, as it before all else (except maybe the B5 station) is the most recognizable space structure in the whole B5 universe! (and it would be especially nice if we could get that mini with a blue and a yellow semi-transparent plastic "jump point")
> and followiong the bases, Orbital Defence Sat minis! We have nice visuals for Heavy EA sats from the show, and CGI for Narn and Minbari (from the defunct ItF game) sats; it shouldn't be hard to extrapolate something for the Centauri from their "Blockade Mines" to have distinct O-Sats for the "big four"; and then do the same for al the major races.
> "Leftover Ships" seen on the show - from Soul Hunter Collector ships to Technomage Pinnaces, if it was on the show I would like to see it as mini one day, even if they have no real fleet behind them.
And once I have all that...
> New Fleets! Especially those of races actually seen on the show (like the Golians; Grome; Hurr; Hyach; Ipsha; Llort; Lumati; Markab; Moradi; Streib; Thrakallans; and Yolu), but also those only mentioned somewhere (like the Alacans; Antareans; Balosians; Belt Alliance; Cascor; Corillani; Deneth; Descari; Kor-Lyans; Koulani; Tal-Kona'sha; Tikar; Torata; and Tokati) to finish the races we see on the Mongoose map! (though of course not every one of them will need their own minis - some might use converted hulls bought from other powers, especially some of the "one-system" races; while many others will have only two or three hull designs...)
> Ancients! Full fleets for the Walkers, Kirishiac, Thirdspace aliens and "the Hand", etc.
(BtW, did anyone notice Mongoose dropped the ball in regards to them in their Armageddon supplement? Yees, they mixed up the "Thoughtforce" and "Lordship"!!! Meaning we have a "Lordship" description with the "Thoughtforce" picture on p.76 and vica versa on the next page! And not only once, on p.53 the picture text calls the Lordship in the asteroid field a Thoughtforce too! I am beginning to suspect whoever is responsible for this has never seen the show, because if so, he or she mightnhave remembered that the "grey mountain looking ship" fired pulse-type weapons and thus must be the Thoughtforce, while the "round, yellow ship with the orbiting segments" proved to be the Lordship - it even sys so in the descriuption just above the picture...)
> Historical Ships! From old EA hulls (just ask Rich Bax and the rest of the old HRT) to ancient Centauri vessels and Orieni to fight with, from ships that fought Valen's War to the fleets of the forgotten Garmak Empire... (of course, that would be a far future project, as they have enough to do with the current stuff...)
And finally... what I would really want (but know I am unlikely to get) would be redesigned minis for:
- Ships with holes in their bellies like the Avenger, Neshatan, Morshin, Troligan or Shafab/Moas once it gets released (all it needs it sculpting a fitting bottom plate)
- Ships that are very much incorrectly sized (I don't mind a little - like the Warlock or Cronos -should be bigger by about 20-30%-), like the Olympus (should be smaller, about 65%... or reclassified as hyperion-sized capital-ship light carrier to justify it's size; there is a precedent as we have a scene in ItB where a O. is alone in deep space with fighter cover), Raider Carrier and Passenger Liner (ditto, about 50-60% - I mean, look at the fighters at the carrier and compare then to hangar openings in All other minis!), as well as Civilian Freighter & Tanker (same size problem - compare to the scene in "Points of Departure", or compare the circular command section to the same section on the Hyperion mini - that ought to give an idea of how big the civilians should be)
- and finally, Ships that simply look like shit. Or don't look like in the show. Or both. And by that I am afraid I mean just about the whole Drakh fleet... (raiders shoud be smaller - they were about half the size of WhiteStars in the show, while the rest of the fleet ought to be redone to match their appereance in the show - or at the very least adjusted so things match again. I mean, if we had a "Attack Ship" that looked like in Crusade, a part where the current "Fast Destroyer" fails, we could have the current "Light Cruiser" as "Destroyer" and keep the rest...) As for the "look like shit" part... well, by that I mean clumsy shaping, lack of detail, or mismatching details (like "exposed combustion engine block" thingies on B5 ships like we saw on the Brivoki or Neroon)... so far there are none in my collection, though the pictures of the upcoming Armageddon minis... well, we'll see. I reserve judgement until I can examine the actual minis themselves. In any case, if the minis cost a fortune I expect them to be up to standards set by AoG in their day.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
ShadowScout said:
So you have Armageddon already? I think you just became the most envied person on these boards!
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
Jump gates would be nice, the Valen ..........
ANLASHOKER
Mongoose
1. I would like to see more shadows. only race w/out a variety.
2. Any new league race that doesn't just buy their ships from other races i.e not gaim or pak'mara
3. Smaller armageddon ships that fit in with current models
4. more creative models for armageddon, especially isa
5. game accessories (star bases, asteroids, jumpgates, etc.)
6. new race, whether it be streib or the hand. something relatively powerful.
2. Any new league race that doesn't just buy their ships from other races i.e not gaim or pak'mara
3. Smaller armageddon ships that fit in with current models
4. more creative models for armageddon, especially isa
5. game accessories (star bases, asteroids, jumpgates, etc.)
6. new race, whether it be streib or the hand. something relatively powerful.
chaos0xomega
Mongoose
Silvereye said:
'round here we just got noobs who play one-off games though, not campaigns. That's why I suggest 'refits' for one-off games, unless you think the refits can easily be used in a one-off game.
YEAH!
OH HELL YEAH!
Some of the 'missing' ships from the series -Earth Force 1, Narn and Centauri transport ships, the Icarus, the ThirdSpace bad guys. The EA assault transports (Condor class?) seen in the GROPOS episode.
Some older EA, Centauri and (nodding to Hiffano) Narn designs.
More non-aligned fleets, esp. those already released in FA scale, simply needing to be scaled up to full size as was done successfully with the Apollo, Chronos and Delphi. I'd like to see the Llort, and some of the Dilgar's victims such as the Cascor, the Alacans and the Markab.
New Raider ships, something small, fast and piratical, preferably.
More support (repair, transport & logistic) ships, and rules to use them in campaigns.
The Gaim, although that's more a paint scheme and new stats for exising minis.
Whatever did happen to the Pak'Ma'Ra?
Some older EA, Centauri and (nodding to Hiffano) Narn designs.
More non-aligned fleets, esp. those already released in FA scale, simply needing to be scaled up to full size as was done successfully with the Apollo, Chronos and Delphi. I'd like to see the Llort, and some of the Dilgar's victims such as the Cascor, the Alacans and the Markab.
New Raider ships, something small, fast and piratical, preferably.
More support (repair, transport & logistic) ships, and rules to use them in campaigns.
The Gaim, although that's more a paint scheme and new stats for exising minis.
Whatever did happen to the Pak'Ma'Ra?
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
Oh yes, that creep was nice! Did we see his race´s ships in Rangers? Can´t remember at the moment...Mage said:
chaos0xomega
Mongoose
Silvereye said:
I'm talking about upgrades you can choose, not roll for though.
More LONAW please.
thats all i want. because while most fleets seem nice, they arent really variable. Like every major race, even the Dilgar has a few tricks up its sleeve, or rather different play styles. Yet the LONAW are pretty much restricted to one, maybe two styles.
Like: Oh its Drazi then? Well its the night of boresights......
Or Abbai? Someone gonna APTE towards me with Bimiths?
thats all i want. because while most fleets seem nice, they arent really variable. Like every major race, even the Dilgar has a few tricks up its sleeve, or rather different play styles. Yet the LONAW are pretty much restricted to one, maybe two styles.
Like: Oh its Drazi then? Well its the night of boresights......
Or Abbai? Someone gonna APTE towards me with Bimiths?
ShadowScout
Mongoose
Arrived this week. Sometimes preordering from Mongoose directly is Really fast! (and compared to the two rather slow-ordering -unless it's GW- game-stores we have here in Austria it is the best option IMO, even though I pay more for S&H)Greg Smith said:
But do you know what the worst is? I don't even play CtA! I just get the rules "in case" and to convert it all into my old and beloved "Babylon 5 Wars"...
:wink: 
