New Runequest - what to expect

[Doctor Warlock]

I haven't played Runequest for YEARS!

Not since 2nd Edition in fact, I did buy the 3rd Edition (the Avalon Hill 'dodgy' version - I wasn't a fan Lol) but my Gaming Group never took to it.

We ended up being a Shadowrun Group for ages, only returning to old Favourites like "Call of C'thulhu" after a number of years.

So, what do I have to look foreward too with the new (4th?) Edition. I'm downloading the Previews now to have a read through. I just wondered what insights people have.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

Supposed to be more simple, streamlined and faster playing, but that seems to indicate that stuff (like total HP, weapon SRs, the resistance table, some skills and maybe a few others) has been cut.

Generally the vibe I get is that it has more of an RQ2 than an RQ3 feel.

Which is no bad thing.

 

[Enpeze]

another big diffference are the fact that you can conduct up to 4 combat actions (eg. moves, attacks etc.) and up to 4 defenses per turn.

minor changes are weapon damage

 

[andakitty]

A minor change, but the 2h weapons would look better to me if they were nerfed a bit too. Say 2d6 for greatword, and 2d4+2 for greataxe. At this point, though, judging from what I know for sure about the game I am definitely not going to use houserules. That may change when I actually see the full rules. I want a game that I don't feel has to be changed to work. Just pick up the book and play. Little things like above aren't a deal breaker for me like they used to be.

 

[atgxtg]

I am going to reserve judement on the weapon damages until I see how the new maneuvering/actions work.

THere might be some sort of powerswing type option (downswing, sideswing) where the larger, heavier weapons are more effective. This would make a lot of sense "real-world" wise. Most of the big damage weapons in RPGS are only real damage doing when they can be used for such an attack. A quick chop isn't nearly as powerful.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

Maybe the 2H weapons were rampted up to compensate for shields being more effective? We'll have to wait and see, indeed.

Although that 2h bastard sword is concerning...

 

[atgxtg]

We also don;t know if the STR/SIZ damage bonus is adjuested for 2H Weapons. Several RPGs, including the new D&D allow characters to add more that the standard damage bonus when a weapon is used two handed.

MAybe in M-RQ character add twice thier damage bonus with 2H weapons. So maybe that 1D8+1 for a bastard sword is 1d8+1+2xdb? 1d8+1+2d4 would word out well.

Of course that would make greatswords and other 2H weapons very nasty.

Well, only a couple ofweeks until we find out.

 

[Mikko Leho]

We also don;t know if the STR/SIZ damage bonus is adjuested for 2H Weapons. Several RPGs, including the new D&D allow characters to add more that the standard damage bonus when a weapon is used two handed.

That is unlikely as bastard swords, battleaxes and heavy maces use different base damage when used with one or two hands. There would be no point in listing 1H and 2H stats for these weapons if the rules had different STR/SIZ damage bonus for 1H and 2H use.

 

[Archer]

Is there no-one but me that sees the great advantage of the bastard sword when wielded 2h? less STR requirement. Even a duck would be able to wield it 2h, without much problem.

Granted, a tiny +1 bonus to damage for 2h seems a bit on the tiny side, but if you were to have both greatly increased damage, and lessened STR requirement, then the weapon would be too good, if you happen to reason along the lines of the "holy" game balance (which I could not give less care about, but which game designers obviously do).

 

[andakitty]

Another possibility is increased defensive ability with a weapon used 2h. A game I have mentioned, Fifth Cycle, actually does that. Any 2h weapon in that game gets about +50% defensive capability over a 1h weapon. Increased damage for 2h use would put the 'big 3' waaay over the top.

 

[atgxtg]

Is there no-one but me that sees the great advantage of the bastard sword when wielded 2h? less STR requirement. Even a duck would be able to wield it 2h, without much problem.

Granted, a tiny +1 bonus to damage for 2h seems a bit on the tiny side, but if you were to have both greatly increased damage, and lessened STR requirement, then the weapon would be too good, if you happen to reason along the lines of the "holy" game balance (which I could not give less care about, but which game designers obviously do).

I don't think people want a "greatly increased" 2H damage for the bastard sword, just that it shouldn't be one of the weakest. RQ had a !D10+1 bastard sword for years without unbalancing the game.

Besides, a "war sword" is technically a bastard sword anyway (the knight's "sword of war" is a Hand & 1/2 sword).

 

[Archer]

atgxtg: You are right. From most BRP games and BRP derivatives, I recognize the Bastard Sword as having a 1d10 or 1d10+1 damage dice. Seeing it on the same level as a longsword/broadsword/whatever that does 1d8 of damage, just feels plain weird.

Technichally, a scottish claymore could be a bastardsword, but I can in no way see it dealing 1d8+1 damage. I could agree on a 1d8+1 damage for onehanded use, and a 1d10+1 for two handed though.

 

[Ravage]

Well... This is a bolt out of the blue.... There I am idly pointing and clicking and I find this - effectively RQ4!

Having just come back from a weekend away playing HQ and ending up with two England Football penalty finals (one in the World cup the other in HQ where the endggame situation was once more all based on one dice roll and failling cos the GM criticalled despite 30 minutes of planning, augmenting and roleplaying) it led to our group finally arguing what HQ has done to our game: effectively we could be playing with a pack of cards rather than dice in the HQ rule system!

And that comes from a "hero" who put a chunk of moola to save Glorantha as a RPG.

Well... I've already placed a pre-order of RQ4 and all supplement sincoming, already peaking terribly, and hmm... maybe I can just make this open day if my missus wont chop my legs off!

I'm deeply intrigued by the talk that the system allows for complex combat (hit, parry, hit parry, etc etc) and perhaps simplified combat (army vs army, or multiple targets) as this was always a RQ1/2/3 hole. Wish the previews gave that baby away!

Interesting thought about playing 2nd age - seeing I've played 3rd since the age of 12 (yikes over 25 years!) it'll be refreshing as long as source material becomes available and from a central body - I can only presume Mongoose will have a vetting team if its not being "gregged" - consistency is the key. Hell... put me down as a prrof-reader/validator!

.... but equally even since RQ2 the support material has been too sparse. When I first started we needed what Hero Wars brought in Storm Tribes and Thunder Rebels.... but even more important, we are STILL waiting for the Lunar equivilents. For Humakts sakes, if we're going to set up a new system with a new enemy (its late, I've not scoured my old rq2 rulebook for the history of the 2nd age, but I'm guessing any game system needs an enemy like the Lunars - EWF? Gabji? Lunar Goddess incarnate?) PLEASE make sure that supplements appear really quick for the opposing systems - and no - that doesnt mean a quick-win trollpak V5 reprint!

Lets not forget what HW/HQ has done for role playing in Glorantha: as I've previously said, what WORKS in these systems - to me and sorry if it offends people who gave up - is that there are millions of cults, millions of sub-cult, aspects and differring powers. This is good source material. Supreme source material even. Unless the cults change (and why would the cults change unless we're talking that Nysalor is stalking the earth all printed gods and their cults should exist in this age) perhaps an indication that the ruelbook for RQ4 or the website or SOMETHING will do a small dossier on HQ/HW->RQ4 conversion.

I can hear you all groaning as I said it. But its valid. And its important folks - Glorantha is what it is through its layers of mysticism and lore dervived from runes, cults and cultures and more. HQ did us proud but had a gaming system like a donkey butt - unless you wanted to play demigods. lets not let another incarnation become just a media to reprint RQ2, RQ3, HW, HQ etc again but massaged for RQ4!

Sorry if I've rambled, but as a long-termer I wanna finnaly get involved again, get supportive again, get back to Glorantha - but getting back in a RuneQuest framework! My D10 await the call of duty and D20 relegation to hit locations!

Sincerely,
Rav
Coriales Clan, ex-hero of GTA

 

[andakitty]

Welcome to the party, Ravage.

As to bastard sword damage, there is a precedent. Stormbringer 1e pretty much said the broadsword at 1D8+1 was the same style as the bastard sword, although they didn't stat it 2h. I houseruled it variously at 1D10+1 or 2D6 whe used 2h, depending on the rest of the weapon list for the setting I was using. 2D6 always felt more accurate to me, though.

 

[atgxtg]

Welcome to the party, Ravage.

As to bastard sword damage, there is a precedent. Stormbringer 1e pretty much said the broadsword at 1D8+1 was the same style as the bastard sword, although they didn't stat it 2h. I houseruled it variously at 1D10+1 or 2D6 whe used 2h, depending on the rest of the weapon list for the setting I was using. 2D6 always felt more accurate to me, though.

Well, statistically, the difference between a bastard sword and broadsword is about the same, statstically. 1D10+1 averages 6.5 and 1d8+1 averages 5.5, for 1 point difference.

THe real advantage of a close 2H grip (like used for a Katana) was more control and stronger blocks. However, a warrior could always "choke up" a bit on the top hand grip for a 2H power strike (usually reserved for a downed foe in order to get through heavy armor).

Historically, greatsword technique has a lot in common with staff fighting, since the hands are kept far apart to impart more power to the attacks.

 

[andakitty]

I read a textbook on Renaissance era combat a long time ago. The pictures illustrating combat with the zweihander were enlightening...they showed just the type grip on the sword as you describe. So I guess the big 2h swords were rarely if ever used for roundhouse swings as many of us envision?

 

[atgxtg]

I read a textbook on Renaissance era combat a long time ago. The pictures illustrating combat with the zweihander were enlightening...they showed just the type grip on the sword as you describe. So I guess the big 2h swords were rarely if ever used for roundhouse swings as many of us envision?

Yeah, rarely used that way. With one hand part way up the blade to use as a fulcrum, you probably get more power into the swing anyway.

BTW, THe History chaneel did a nice show on authentic fighting styles. I believe they used some of the same manuals, but had experts to demonstate the styles. I was enlightening to see how often the counterweight on the pommel was used as a 2H mace. THe "edge" on a greatsword was more of a minor perk. Truth is, 6+ pounds of steel swung of a 5 ft long lever has enough impact to make a cutting edge unecessary.

 

[SwordSage]

Well... This is a bolt out of the blue.... There I am idly pointing and clicking and I find this - effectively RQ4!
Lets not forget what HW/HQ has done for role playing in Glorantha: as I've previously said, what WORKS in these systems - to me and sorry if it offends people who gave up - is that there are millions of cults, millions of sub-cult, aspects and differring powers. This is good source material. Supreme source material even.

I have to agree with you there. I hate the HW/HQ mechanics, mostly. (I do like the idea of augmenting one skill with another though.) But my gaming group just started playing a modified version of RQ3 again, so I've been spending the past month converting every single magical feat in Storm Tribe and Thunder Rebels into RQ3 style runespells.

It's a ton of work, but I love the cult and spell diversity. I've got players drolling over playing rune levels of the Daylanus the Conquering Storm subcult of Orlanth Thunderous. And I seriously think that some of them are going to be tempted by Ernalda the Queen's Kagone subcult. Even Bevara the Medic makes a nice adventurer cult with a definite upside vs Chalana Arroy (Yes, you can fight! Go to town!)

I just hope that MRQ will provide this kind of spell and advancement diversity while providing ACTUAL FREAKING RULES THAT TELL US HOW IT WORKS. Cause my document is already 100+ pages long and I'm only up Humakt.

Hmm, Great Blow. What the heck should that do? +100% to next sword attack for 1 pt or Rune Magic? So let it be written! So let it be done!

 

[andakitty]

*shakes head* My, Glorantha seems to have...grown...since the days of RQ2. :shock:

 

[Lord Twig]

<groan> Tell me about it.

It is just a matter of taste I guess, but I don't want a million cults! I don't want thousands of spells. If I wanted that I would go back to D&D and it's growing number of Prestige Classes and thousands of spells! <shudder>

Whew! Okay, swords. Ahem...

I am not so keen on the weapon damages that I have seen so far, but there is still a lot we don't know about the system. I will have to reserve judgment.