broken serenity said:just placed a pre order for the black missions book hope theres still some left?
was gonna buy the gm's screen but atm im not sure how usefull it'll be and £10 for what may end up being an expensive cardboard screen on my desk is abit much to spend really...unless theres more than just the screen?
Danforth said:I managed to scrape together Paypal pennies for a preorder too. Matthew Sprange said something along the lines of, everyone who wants a copy of Black Missions will get one, which suggests to me their print contract is flexible and they'll just run extras off if they get extra preorders. I'm sure they wouldn't take our money unless they were confident of giving us the book
Danforth said:Ah-ha, PDF preview is up (linked from the regular Paranoia: Troubleshooter listing, not the Black Missions one). Gotta say I'm not liking the internal art very much. It reminds me of the later West End stuff for 2nd edition. Still, as I have the 2004 rulebook I am pretty much viewing Black Missions as a bargain PDF bundle with a free spare copy of the rules thrown in
Waspinator said:Do we know yet what the exact release date will be?
PrinceYyrkoon said:Pardon me for still being utterly confused but,
If there is little change to the rules from the previous edition, what is the point to this new edition?
PrinceYyrkoon said:If youre going to go for all three limited editions, youre talking, what?, £90? For what? A new cover and a CD?
Is this a game related decision or a marketing one?
Danforth said:PrinceYyrkoon said:Pardon me for still being utterly confused but,
If there is little change to the rules from the previous edition, what is the point to this new edition?
The Troubleshooter book is little-changed from the previous edition's single rulebook. The IntSec book incorporates some of the previous edition's material too, some inspired by previous IntSec-play supplements, and some brand new stuff. The High Programmers book, I assume, will have more new material still, since there's very little previous to go on.
So you could buy the IntSec and High Programmer ones and/or keep on using the 2004 rulebook for Troubleshooters, with little to no game-related trouble.
PrinceYyrkoon said:If youre going to go for all three limited editions, youre talking, what?, £90? For what? A new cover and a CD?
Is this a game related decision or a marketing one?
The unlimited editions are a game-related decision (two new rulebooks, and the new Troubleshooter one brings the original one into line with them). I'd also argue that Black Missions was game-related as it gave us a lot of expensive PDFs, plus extra material, for a fiver.
The limited editions of IntSec and High Programmers, conversely, are a marketing one or at least a collector one, with a small print run to suit the small audience (i.e. people like me who asked Mongoose to make them!)
PrinceYyrkoon said:I can appreciate nice new hardbacks, etc.. Im just wondering why Paranoia needed a new edition. If the new books are little changed, then what is the point to releasing a new edition? Is it simply to get money from loyal Paranoia customers? Its certainly not for the games benefit, is it? The changes sound like they could have been included in a supplement or a pdf.
Danforth said:PrinceYyrkoon said:I can appreciate nice new hardbacks, etc.. Im just wondering why Paranoia needed a new edition. If the new books are little changed, then what is the point to releasing a new edition? Is it simply to get money from loyal Paranoia customers? Its certainly not for the games benefit, is it? The changes sound like they could have been included in a supplement or a pdf.
Well, we don't know how different IntSec and High Programmers will be from the Troubleshooter book yet; if there are loads, then a PDF covering them all would be a great rambling thing (and probably not free). Comes a point where it's simpler to print a new book.
Regarding releasing a supplement to cover other playstyles, as opposed to the three core book approach: they tried that with the 2004 edition's Extreme Paranoia. I'm assuming that sales were not stellar, so this time round they're trying something different.
Taking the Troubleshooter flavour of Paranoia alone for a moment: I would agree that rules tweaks alone which differentiate the 2004 edition from 2009's Troubleshooters core book are not great justification for a new edition. If that were all that was happening, I'd be pissed. But since they are launching the two new sublines, it makes good business sense to tweak the "original" core book too.
More generally, it seems to be something of a hobby gaming standard to update things after five years. Hell, West End brought out 2nd ed Paranoia a mere three years after 1st ed, and the rules were completely incompatible with the new edition! At least all our 2004 books are still pretty much valid even if Mongoose aren't printing any more of them.
I'm sure there's a money-spinning component to Mongoose's business plan, because they are indeed a business. I would like them to continue making money
PrinceYyrkoon said:All reasonable points, and I dont hate Mongoose for making money, thing is, if it seems like cynical money-making theres a bit of a problem.
PrinceYyrkoon said:The changes do seem to be cosmetic. And who said the old edition was broken anyway? These changes seem pretty arbitrary just to herald the new edition. Im pretty certain there will be little to surprise in the books that are coming, because we've already been told that the old edition is going to be fairly compatible with the new.
PrinceYyrkoon said:And, yes, West End did produce new editions, but, you know what?, West End have gone out of business, so its obviously not a good blueprint, is it?
PrinceYyrkoon said:I, like you, would like Mongoose to stick around, but theyre not going to do it by cynically fleecing the customer base are they?
GamerDude said:I have to say I'm enjoying reading the "new" Paranoia. I'm glad the "XP" is gone even though it was cute when it first came out.
GamerDude said:The new cover is nice, and in some ways better conveys what the game is about than the old because it's not the "You're a traitor. BANG! your dead"