new RQ Hawkmoon?

[Exubae]

How different is the Mongograph from the old Hawkmoon supplement for Stormbringer?

It covers the same general areas as the original, but pulls it more in line with book and gives a greater depth to the people of each nation, the perspectives from each culture are both enlightening and entertaining read. It is possibly what the the orginal should have been.
If your in the states it is worth a look, if not the transport cost may be a little discouraging.
Oh, the details on Gran Bretans orders is also found within, it is just sad that chaosium neglected to publish it as a true suppliment.

Possibly, but more likely the staff writers will do it.

Sad but possibly true, though I doubt they'll be able to 1/10th the feel Lawerence has managed to capture from the series. Reading through you get the feeling he has dedicated a hell of a lot of time getting the feel correct rather than churning out a passable hunk of text that only nods at the books.

Paul

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

Sad but possibly true, though I doubt they'll be able to 1/10th the feel Lawerence has managed to capture from the series. Reading through you get the feeling he has dedicated a hell of a lot of time getting the feel correct rather than churning out a passable hunk of text that only nods at the books.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right.

The writers are all pretty talentless from what I hear. I wonder why they were even hired. And I'm sure they all know nothing about the source material, nor have ever dedicated 'a hell of a lot of time getting the feel correct' in any of their previous work.

Good call.

 

[Exubae]

Yeah, I'm sure you're right.

The writers are all pretty talentless from what I hear. I wonder why they were even hired. And I'm sure they all know nothing about the source material, nor have ever dedicated 'a hell of a lot of time getting the feel correct' in any of their previous work.

Good call.

Have you been given the task of rewriting Hawkmoon?

I never intended to imply any discredit to inhouse writers, nor that I expected Mongoose

to be churning out passable hunks of text

Take a few deep breaths dude...

I was just trying to emphasis the fact that the monographs are produced for the love of the game not for cash in pocket.
So what dedication, time, and effort that goes into the work isn't governed by dead lines and cash flow. Purely by the desire of the author.

On the negative side no matter how much time is spent, if the author is talentless then its not going to be worth a fig any way

In this case I was just pointing out that Lawerence Whitaker, seems to a very capable author/writer and he seems to captured the feel of the world well. Who from the forward of the monograph admits the work has been several years in development, and the time and effort shows.

(The point I was trying to make Mongoose has time and monetary constraints that aren't going to allow authors such as yourself 2 or 3 years on a project)

Apologies for any misunderstanding DBC.
As you can tell form the poor direction and tone of posting, I'm not an author.

Cheers
Paul

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

Apologies for any misunderstanding DBC.
As you can tell form the poor direction and tone of posting, I'm not an author.

Cheers
Paul

Forgot about this thread. My bad.

Anyway, don't sweat it, dude. No offence taken. No real offence, anyway. I was tempted to rail on about how each individual word I craft is a labour of love, but I think I left it too long to joke about that. Shame really, as that had potential.

Also, no one writes their best on forums. I think humans are genetically hardwired to write badly online, or something. I know I sure am. If I had £1 for each point I've failed to make or misinterpreted, I'd be playing an Xbox 360 right now instead of waiting for one as a Yule present.

By the by, I'm not writing the Hawkmoon book. I've got another of the Eternal Champions. I was never a big Hawkmoon guy, so there was practically no chance of me getting given it.

 

[Quire]

I've got another of the Eternal Champions.

Ooh! Who, who? And have you any hints as to how many of them are gonna get covered?

- Q

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

I've got another of the Eternal Champions.

Ooh! Who, who? And have you any hints as to how many of them are gonna get covered?

- Q

Xanthor, Eternal Champion of...

Nah, sorry. Can't say. I'm always very vocal about what I'm currently writing, though, so as soon as I start the project, I'll let you know.

 

[Quire]

Nah, sorry. Can't say. I'm always very vocal about what I'm currently writing, though, so as soon as I start the project, I'll let you know.

Cool. Bet you can't wait to re-read the Corum books tho, eh?

- Q

 

[Exubae]

I've got another of the Eternal Champions.

Come on DBC, have you landed Corum?
or better still Jherry Cornellius?

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

Cool. Bet you can't wait to re-read the Corum books tho, eh?

- Q

I've got another of the Eternal Champions.

Come on DBC, have you landed Corum?
or better still Jherry Cornellius?

You guys are mean.

I have a photo somewhere of me with my headphones on, making a "shhhh!" face. The caption under it is Silence! Speak not of these things... I was going to use that here, but I can't find it.

Bugger.

Still, I suppose it's not exactly hard to guess...

 

[Quire]

Bugger.

Still, I suppose it's not exactly hard to guess...

:lol: There are only so many options, of course (if we're sticking to canon). There are three obvious ones (of which we've seen, appropriately enough, previous incarnations).

Personally, I'd love to see a Cornelius treatment. Likewise for Von Bek - although the crossover with Elric is so sizable in this case that a supplement for en Elric game that specifically examines War Hound and Autumn Stars et al might be more appropriate.

Similarly, Erekose would be better handled as a supplement, too. IMO.

I've often wondered what role-playing at the End of Time could be like...and concluded that it would be mostly chaotic. I mean entropic.

- Q

 

[Loz]

e.

On the Hawkmoon front, as it stands the Lawrence Whitker Hawkmoon monograph could be plugged into MRQ with little if no changes.

Cheers
Paul

How different is the Mongograph from the old Hawkmoon supplement for Stormbringer?

So far, no one from Mongoose has been in touch with me (I've emailed Matt separately, but he's obviously too busy to reply) about the Hawkmoon plans, so I've absolutely no idea if there's any intention to involve me or make use of the monograph.

It's very heartening to receive the kind support I have here on this thread. Thank you very much.

Loz

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

So far, no one from Mongoose has been in touch with me (I've emailed Matt separately, but he's obviously too busy to reply) about the Hawkmoon plans, so I've absolutely no idea if there's any intention to involve me or make use of the monograph.

I know Matt's crazy-busy right now with Other Stuff, but all I can say on the subject (because I know nothing and I'm guessing my pants off) is that he's probably working out exactly what Mongoose are going to do with the EC stuff, etc. He's usually great for replying to emails, so I doubt he'd blank you if he actually had the time and he actually had an aswer to give.

 

[Loz]

So far, no one from Mongoose has been in touch with me (I've emailed Matt separately, but he's obviously too busy to reply) about the Hawkmoon plans, so I've absolutely no idea if there's any intention to involve me or make use of the monograph.

I know Matt's crazy-busy right now with Other Stuff, but all I can say on the subject (because I know nothing and I'm guessing my pants off) is that he's probably working out exactly what Mongoose are going to do with the EC stuff, etc. He's usually great for replying to emails, so I doubt he'd blank you if he actually had the time and he actually had an aswer to give.

Yep - Kelly told as much!

Cheers.

 

[atgxtg]

Sad but possibly true, though I doubt they'll be able to 1/10th the feel Lawerence has managed to capture from the series. Reading through you get the feeling he has dedicated a hell of a lot of time getting the feel correct rather than churning out a passable hunk of text that only nods at the books.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right.

The writers are all pretty talentless from what I hear. I wonder why they were even hired. And I'm sure they all know nothing about the source material, nor have ever dedicated 'a hell of a lot of time getting the feel correct' in any of their previous work.

Good call.

Careful DBC,

While I wouldn't have posted what you did (even though you did it as sarcasm)- based upon how the MRQ core book came out, I for one, am inclined to agree with it. I'm not the only one either. In my area Mongoose products do not have a good reputation. In fact, it is so bad that only one of the two gaming stores in the area stocks any Mongoose stuff becuase it doesn't sell.

Seondly, Exubae's statment didn't say anything bad about Mongoose, only that Mr. Whittaker's version would have been better. Based on past experience with the Chasoium D100 system (i.e. Whittaker has some), I don't think you should take umbrange until Monoose actually publishes a good RQ setting to compare against Mr. Whaittakers previpous works.

Writting D&D and writing RQ are two (too) different things.

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

Careful DBC,

While I wouldn't have posted what you did (even though you did it as sarcasm)- based upon how the MRQ core book came out, I for one, am inclined to agree with it. I'm not the only one either. In my area Mongoose products do not have a good reputation. In fact, it is so bad that only one of the two gaming stores in the area stocks any Mongoose stuff becuase it doesn't sell.

Seondly, Exubae's statment didn't say anything bad about Mongoose, only that Mr. Whittaker's version would have been better. Based on past experience with the Chasoium D100 system (i.e. Whittaker has some), I don't think you should take umbrange until Monoose actually publishes a good RQ setting to compare against Mr. Whaittakers previpous works.

Writting D&D and writing RQ are two (too) different things.

I didn't take any umbrage. Though I'd argue that Robin Laws' Glorantha: the Second Age stands up to practically anything out there. And that's the main setting for MRQ, as it happens.

Bear in mind that "Mongoose" is made up of many writers. One writer will produce completely different things from another. If, for example, I was going to take umbrage - though I'm really not that crabby - I could read into it that you're judging me or other writers on a reputation that we do not individually deserve. 'Course, I know you're not doing that and I'd have to be fantastically petty to see it that way.

Nah, my only confusion is what the last part of your post means. The bit in bold. Not entirely sure where that figures into things.

 

[atgxtg]

Careful DBC,

While I wouldn't have posted what you did (even though you did it as sarcasm)- based upon how the MRQ core book came out, I for one, am inclined to agree with it. I'm not the only one either. In my area Mongoose products do not have a good reputation. In fact, it is so bad that only one of the two gaming stores in the area stocks any Mongoose stuff becuase it doesn't sell.

Seondly, Exubae's statment didn't say anything bad about Mongoose, only that Mr. Whittaker's version would have been better. Based on past experience with the Chasoium D100 system (i.e. Whittaker has some), I don't think you should take umbrange until Monoose actually publishes a good RQ setting to compare against Mr. Whaittakers previpous works.

Writting D&D and writing RQ are two (too) different things.

I didn't take any umbrage. Though I'd argue that Robin Laws' Glorantha: the Second Age stands up to practically anything out there. And that's the main setting for MRQ, as it happens.

The problem with using that is the fact that no one outside of MOngoose has seen it, so there is no outside opinion on how good the book is. It might be the best thing even put on paper. It might be the worst thing even put on paper. I think we both agree that is is neither of those two but something in between.

THere is no way for those who haven't see it to judge it farily, and the subjectiveness of such products makes it hard to accept a opinion as fact.

Bear in mind that "Mongoose" is made up of many writers. One writer will produce completely different things from another. If, for example, I was going to take umbrage - though I'm really not that crabby - I could read into it that you're judging me or other writers on a reputation that we do not individually deserve. 'Course, I know you're not doing that and I'd have to be fantastically petty to see it that way.

Yup, Mongoose has a lot of writers, and each has his or her (hope that covers everyone) own talents and abilities. Personally, I am very fond of OGL ANCIENTS, and believe that is has more of an RQ feel to it than a D&D feel. In fact, I think it feels more like RQ than MRQ. Probably a lot of that stems from the fact that OGL ANCIENTS was adding RQ elements to a D&D game, where MRQ was taking RQ elements out of an RQ game (I'd say adding D&D elements into a RQ game).

But, my statment was directed at the D100 line of products, specifically the RQ core book, as it is the book that I have. I've yet to see the compnaion-not in my area. I had pre-ordered it, along with the Core rules, but my local shop owner forgot to place the order. IN that case, I'll wait until I see it before buying it.


Nah, my only confusion is what the last part of your post means. The bit in bold. Not entirely sure where that figures into things.[/quote]

What I meant by the part in bold:

1) D&D and RQ are two different games with different styles of play. What might be "good" in one system or when marketed towards fans of one system, isn't necessarily "good" or accepted as such among fans of the other. So someone with a lot of experience writing D&D/D20 stuff isn't necessarily going to write good RQ stuff. Much the way that a good mystery writer isn't necessarily a good Science Fiction writer.

I can't find one MRQ writer to date who has previously written good RQ stuff. Even Robin Laws. Robin has written serveral RQs, and was one of the authors for HeroQuest, but that isn't RuneQuest experience. HQ and RQ present two very different views of Glorantha.

2) MRQ does have changes that seeemed geared to making the game more like D&D. Some examples: An initiative system, saving throws, character improvement is doles out as awards in points to spend, characters taking a lot more damage, combat is biased towards the offense, combantants being able to take 20 and 30 point hits and still keep fighting (just make those resilience saves), RQ "senses" replaced with nightvision and darkvision. battlemagic changed from being common and avaiable to all, to becomming something used by dedicated spellcasters (the average bigging RQ2/3 character knew more magic that the average MRQ wizard, priest or shaman).

I've made this claim before: MRQ is RQ for the D&D crowd, not for the RQ crowd.

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

I know you're not accusing me specifically, but I'm posting this in the hope that it'll at least explain my mindset on this a little better.

The people who wrote RuneQuest for the first time had never written any RuneQuest stuff before. And back then they lacked the impressive credits of some of the other writers working on it now, as well as lacking the wealth of previous editions to work from that all the writers now have unlimited access to.

I'm not writing RQ for D&D fans. I'm writing it because I want to add to Greg Stafford's mythology without going against his overreaching vision, because I want people - whether RQ vets or newbies from any previous systems - to like my Imperial Age stuff and use it in their games, and because I have the best job in the world and I'm paid to do it. I'm in very regular contact with Greg specifically to make sure my stuff aligns with his vision. That's not something pretty to say - I could easily write what I liked for the pay and get by that way, but I don't because I've got a lot of love for the setting and I want my stuff to be an integral part of it.

Nothing that's out yet will feel like RQ to some people and might feel like D&D to you, though that always makes me wonder since so many other folks say it's no different from [insert previous edition] or BRP, etc. One person says it's not different enough, another says it's too different; fine - not my area of choice for discussion. When the actual Glorantha stuff comes out - the stuff that actually made RuneQuest RuneQuest - then I see any D&D comparisons fading.

 

[atgxtg]

I know you're not accusing me specifically, but I'm posting this in the hope that it'll at least explain my mindset on this a little better.

Cool. THat is often the major stumbling block when dealing with epople on-line. I know from my pown experiences here that things went easier once some of the "pro" and "neg" campers develped a better unsterstanding of each other.

In fact, it is probably why my initial 2 cents on this didn't start a flame war.

The people who wrote RuneQuest for the first time had never written any RuneQuest stuff before. And back then they lacked the impressive credits of some of the other writers working on it now, as well as lacking the wealth of previous editions to work from that all the writers now have unlimited access to.

Quite true. Back when the orginal Chasoium started up, or even before Greg wrote RB&WM no one had any significant gaming credits.

I think the big difference between Chasoiums situation and Mongoose's is that Chasoium didn't make claims of how good their D&D stuff was compared to the stuff produced by TSR. Mongoose is using someone elses system as a base, someone elses setting(s) and doesn't have a leg to stand on,yet, against someone who had done so in the past.

Mongooses claims of experience and talent are all based on things done in differenrt systems. So all we have to judge thier RQ stuff by is the MRQ Core (and now the Companion and Rune of Chaos). PUtting aside personal taste over the MRQ system, the core book has a lot of technical problems. In a nutshell, the rules present in the core rule book are often wrong, the examples of play are great for showing how not to play the game, and ther armor table is atrocious.

I'm not writing RQ for D&D fans. I'm writing it because I want to add to Greg Stafford's mythology without going against his overreaching vision, because I want people - whether RQ vets or newbies from any previous systems - to like my Imperial Age stuff and use it in their games, and because I have the best job in the world and I'm paid to do it. I'm in very regular contact with Greg specifically to make sure my stuff aligns with his vision. That's not something pretty to say - I could easily write what I liked for the pay and get by that way, but I don't because I've got a lot of love for the setting and I want my stuff to be an integral part of it.

THat is great. But as you pointed out easiler, Mongoose has a lot fo writers. So your care, and attention to detail, doing the homework, and checking with Greg are all good factors-for the stuff you write. Of course the next page could have people drawing from a deck of many things.


Nothing that's out yet will feel like RQ to some people and might feel like D&D to you, though that always makes me wonder since so many other folks say it's no different from [insert previous edition] or BRP, etc. One person says it's not different enough, another says it's too different; fine - not my area of choice for discussion. When the actual Glorantha stuff comes out - the stuff that actually made RuneQuest RuneQuest - then I see any D&D comparisons fading.[/quote]

I aggree there are a lot of differences of opinion about MRQ, and about any RPG. A consensus has yet to be reached. It is still way to soon to see how MRQ is going to do. I havesome ideas and seen some things that point in certain directions, but so does everyone else.

When the GLorantha stuff comes out, we all can decide. IMO if the Rune Magic system works the same in Gloantha as in the core rules, Mongoose Glorantha will be DOA. I don't see Glorantha becoming a low magic world. If the "battle magic" isn't there like in the old days the D&D comparisons are going to get written in permanent marker.

I wish you luck, and I do hope the Gloratha book is good. I hope it is as good as many of the fine Glonatha products of the past. But that is what Mongoose is going to have to prove. The ball is in thier court.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

I'm far more interested in how MRQ handles science and constructed artifacts. I sincerely hope they handle it as the French 'Hawkmoon NE' edition did - it was a stroke of genius!

Best regards

 

[Exubae]

Just wondering has Mongoose actually acquired the licences for the MM's EC characters from Chaosium?
Or has MM managed to wriggle out of his agreement with Chaosium and give Mongoose a shot at the EC characters?

By MM I mean Michael Moorcock as opposed to Mickey Mouse or the Monster Manual etc

Paul