New Gaim

[CaptBavo]

For the most part, I think the changes to the Gaim look pretty good. One of my issues with them were the amount of fighters and breaching they could fit around a base, but with the clarification now, that seems to be remedied. They also seem to have lost their super troopers special ability.

I still do not care for the free replacement of fighters and breaching pods in campaigns. My group plays lots of campaigns and that has the potential to be open for abuse. I think a cost reduction and/or so many flights free per turn would have been better.

My 2cents worth.

 

[CZuschlag]

More balanced? Yes, that they are.

Balanced enough? Ah, but there's the rub! I have to try it over the board, as I mentioned, but I'm .... skeptical.

 

[stryve]

Target Starting Damage...........Number of Fighters that can contact
1-9.................................................2
10-19.............................................3
20-29.............................................4
30-39.............................................5
40-49.............................................6
50-59.............................................7
60-69.............................................8
70-79.............................................9
80-89.............................................10
90-99.............................................11
100-109..........................................12
etc.

I dunno, seems pretty smple to me...

 

[silashand]

Target Starting Damage...........Number of Fighters that can contact
1-9.................................................2
10-19.............................................3
20-29.............................................4
30-39.............................................5
40-49.............................................6
50-59.............................................7
60-69.............................................8
70-79.............................................9
80-89.............................................10
90-99.............................................11
100-109..........................................12
etc.

I dunno, seems pretty smple to me...

But it certainly doesn't come across that way in the text. As you note above, it is perfectly scalable (assuming you always round down anyway). Maybe instead of the spreadsheet a simple cheatsheet with the above numbers in it would be best. From a gameplay standpoint, it's far easier to look things up on a table than to calculate them one at a time.

Cheers, Gary

 

[katadder]

not hard calculation though is it?
I mean take the 10s number from any ship then add 2 and you have your limit.
so omega 48 damage - take the 10s which is 4, add 2 and you get 6, easy

feel sorry for the explorer though - 16 fighters attacking it and it only has crew 65.

 

[silashand]

not hard calculation though is it?
I mean take the 10s number from any ship then add 2 and you have your limit.
so omega 48 damage - take the 10s which is 4, add 2 and you get 6, easy

Anyway, as I said, just from an ease of play standpoint I think the table would have been better. For those who think the new calculation thing works fine, have at it.

Cheers, Gary

 

[Marco Raimeous]

Ok, just to make sure that I am reading this right. Take the ISA white star gunship. It has 18 damage = 1 + 2 = 3. Thus only three fighters can ever attack the white star gunship in a given turn? I think I am missing something

from S & P

Flights and Ships
The maximum number of fighters that may make contact with a ship's stem in a single turn (whether they are making suicide runs or simply attacking normally) is equal to the starting Damage of the ship, divided by ten, plus two. Round down, and assume a minimum of one flight can always make contact.

So, an Omega destroyer getting hammered by incoming Klikkitaks would face a maximum of six flights each turn.

As with the rest of this article, this rule is an official addition to A Call to Arms, and applies to all fighter activities, from suicide fighters, normal attack runs, and breaching pods.

Would this not severly cut down on EA and other fighter heavy fleets swarm tactics? Perhaps this was the point. :wink:

 

[silashand]

I believe that is the correct methodology. In your example, yes, only 3 would be able to attack a WS gunship at any one time.

Cheers, Gary

 

[silashand]

Question for Matt: is there a reason the Shrutaa Queen (battle level) is the only one without a flight computer? I thought the reasoning was to remove it from all the non-queen ships? I don't mind, but it seems a bit incongruous that one of the largest two ships in the fleet doesn't, yet the small skirmish level queen does. Is this a misprint or intentional?

Cheers, Gary

 

[Triggy]

Question for Matt: is there a reason the Shrutaa Queen (battle level) is the only one without a flight computer? I thought the reasoning was to remove it from all the non-queen ships? I don't mind, but it seems a bit incongruous that one of the largest two ships in the fleet doesn't, yet the small skirmish level queen does. Is this a misprint or intentional?

Cheers, Gary

As far as I'm aware this is a typo and it should have a Flight Computer.

As for the fighters - katadder has it right that this is the simplest way to make the calculation.

Marco Raimeous - You're not missing anything in the calculation. What you are missing is that this only applies to fighters needing to contact an enemy ship rather than fighters making normal attacks (the rule has no effect on standard fighter shooting).

As an example a G'Quan could be hit by 7, an Omega by 6, a White Star Gunship by 3 and a Ka'Bin'Tak by 20!

 

[wkehrman]

Ok, just to make sure that I am reading this right. Take the ISA white star gunship. It has 18 damage = 1 + 2 = 3. Thus only three fighters can ever attack the white star gunship in a given turn? I think I am missing something

from S & P

Flights and Ships
The maximum number of fighters that may make contact with a ship's stem in a single turn (whether they are making suicide runs or simply attacking normally) is equal to the starting Damage of the ship, divided by ten, plus two. Round down, and assume a minimum of one flight can always make contact.

So, an Omega destroyer getting hammered by incoming Klikkitaks would face a maximum of six flights each turn.

As with the rest of this article, this rule is an official addition to A Call to Arms, and applies to all fighter activities, from suicide fighters, normal attack runs, and breaching pods.

Would this not severly cut down on EA and other fighter heavy fleets swarm tactics? Perhaps this was the point. :wink:

I think you may be missing something, or maybe I am...

This is for attacks requiring contact with the ship's stem, not all attacks. To attack, any vessel only needs to get in range of the ship's stem. Thus, for example, all Thunderbolt Starfuries that can get within 4" of a ship's stem may attack using missiles. Thorun Dartfighters or Klikkitak's must contact the stem and are limited by the formula.

 

[wkehrman]

not hard calculation though is it?
I mean take the 10s number from any ship then add 2 and you have your limit.
so omega 48 damage - take the 10s which is 4, add 2 and you get 6, easy

feel sorry for the explorer though - 16 fighters attacking it and it only has crew 65.

OK, I'll cancel the spreadsheet.

 

[stryve]

But it certainly doesn't come across that way in the text.

Yeah, the phrasing is somewhat confusing. Which isn't uncommon in ACTA rules, unfortunately.

What you are missing is that this only applies to fighters needing to contact an enemy ship rather than fighters making normal attacks (the rule has no effect on standard fighter shooting).

So, the rule only effects sucide fighters, skindancers, and maybe base-contact vs stealth?

 

[JTL109]

...

What you are missing is that this only applies to fighters needing to contact an enemy ship rather than fighters making normal attacks (the rule has no effect on standard fighter shooting).

So, the rule only effects sucide fighters, skindancers, and maybe base-contact vs stealth?

-------
Does this mean that since the sucide fighters make contact 'by rule'
they do not have to be 'within 2 inches'? Can one just pack 20 fighters
into the 2 inch space and have the sucide fighters not affected by the anti-fighter?
I personally like the last clarification, not more than 4 fighter 'in contact'
with the post, that solved ALL the problems with fighters!

 

[CratZ]

ok lets say u use those "standard" fighter bases you get from mongoose. How are you gonna get like 6 of them to have contact with the stem of lets say an omega?. Or am i missing something in the rules.

and we are talking about the stem not the base right?

 

[silashand]

I think it basically refers to range. If your suicide fighter has range to the stem during the fighter movement phase, a maximum number as identified by the formula can impact during the fighter combat phase. In this case proximity to the target ship is irrelevant really since effectively they are missiles that detonate upon impact. Not much to worry about as far as taking up space around the ship once you've flattened yourself against its hull, don't you think? ;-)

Now that someone basically spelled out the easy way to use the formula, I agree it isn't hard at all. I guess I was reading too much into it (and I missed the part about rounding down which didn't help).

Cheers, Gary

PS. I did want to say thanks to Matt for giving us this new list. It does seem well done and did manage to keep the feel of the Gaim fleet from before which was nice. Again, thanks!

 

[CratZ]

Well it does say that "..will launch an automatic attack at the end of the movement phase..." so you have to move all the fighters in contact before that right? If we go by the book I mean. But yes I think you can play it out like you said

If I park 3 auroras in contact with my omega does that mean only 3 klikkitaks can attack it?

but oh well, none of my friends plays Gaim so it doesnt matter that much to me 8)

 

[Methos5000]

Marco Raimeous - You're not missing anything in the calculation. What you are missing is that this only applies to fighters needing to contact an enemy ship rather than fighters making normal attacks (the rule has no effect on standard fighter shooting).

As an example a G'Quan could be hit by 7, an Omega by 6, a White Star Gunship by 3 and a Ka'Bin'Tak by 20!

I think the confusion comes from the wording:
The maximum number of flights that may make contact with a ship’s stem in a single turn (whether they are making suicide runs or simply attacking normally) is equal to the starting Damage of the ship, divided by ten, plus two. Round down, and assume a minimum of one flight can always make contact.

The bold part implies that normal fighter attacks are included in this calculation. The part prior to this however indicates that it only applies to attacks that require base contact, most of which are already included in the "suicide runs" portion of the rules. Skindancers and the possibility of also counting for fighters breaking stealth are the only other contact fighter attacks I am aware of, however stealth was always base contact not stem contact so it can become very confusing overall.

Now if fighters were being updated in Powers & Principalities to have their 2" gun ranges changed to "contact" range then it would make alot more sense. Otherwise the wording could have just said "Suicide or Skindancing runs" and that would have eliminated the confusion.

As for the rest of the Gaim it is an improvement over the original Gaim and as an ISA player it is nice to know I have a fighting chance against them as long as I find a way to deal the their fighter swarm.

 

[silashand]

Otherwise the wording could have just said "Suicide or Skindancing runs" and that would have eliminated the confusion.

I think perhaps that may be what was intended. I could be wrong though. Otherwise, there would be no purpose for any fighter to have a range associated with their weapons.

as an ISA player it is nice to know I have a fighting chance against them as long as I find a way to deal the their fighter swarm.

You mean other than the ridiculous level of dodge coupled with adaptive armour for those few attacks that do happen to go through? Somehow I don't think ISA will have much of a problem with the new Gaim fleet at all.

Cheers, Gary

 

[Marco Raimeous]

So really the fighter rule has no real bearing on any other fighter flight (with the exception of the suicide fighters and BP) because normal fighter fire obviously does not require the fighter to be in base contact with the stem.

If this is the case then to put it simply, the game goes on as usual except you can only suicide bomb, BP a ship so many times in a single turn.

Thanks for the clarification Triggy, I think I jumped to conclusions there.