New Gaim

[Target]

Just had a quick skim through S&P.
No more flight comps or Advanced Anti fighter ( just anti fighter)
A ruling on how many fighters can attack ships ( based on ship hits)
New queen rules too.
E-mines gone from AP to AP, DD slow loading. The arc have gone from all Turret to 1 forward & 1 turret generally. The only other weapons they have are beams.
Still not sure i like this fixation with e-mines guess will have to wait & see. Yes im a e-mine hater, honestly would off prefer them to have pulse type of weaponary. But on the whole they don't have huge hits anymore, looking at the skirmish queen in particular. Just have to wait till the new models arrive so we can play them.

 

[Burger]

Hmm. Haven't even looked at the Gaim yet, but I can see major problems with the new fighter contact rules!

Firstly, the "minimum of 1" phrase is superfluous, since you just added 2 anyway. So there will always be a minimum of 2, even if a ship has less than 10 starting damage.

Secondly does the "make contact" part refer to stem contact (for suicide/ramming) or base contact (for ignoring stealth), or both?

Thirdly the rules refer to fighters "attacking normally". Do these changes overrule the normal 2" range of fighter guns? Currently, I could get at least 6 flights within 2" range of a White Star. But under the new rules, can I only attack with 3? Or, does the 2" range still apply, since the fighters don't need to "make contact" to use their 2" guns? How about range 4" (or 8") fighters?

Just out of interest were these rules run by the playtesters?

 

[H]

I believe the Gaim were. Are the new fighter rules gaim based or all fleets based? I never had much of a problem with fighters really, common sense usually prevailed.

ah just read it myself, I have to do maths* to figure out how many fighters can attack?! I think we will stick with common sense!

*yes my american cousins it has an s!! damnit

 

[Locutus9956]

I think the fighter contact rules are meant, as I read them to only limit the number you can get in contact with a stem over the course of a turn so you cant move a suicide fighter in contact the stem take it off the table and repeat that process more than 6 times. You can still get more within 2" or into base contact. The minimum of 1 thing as you note though is somewhat pointles as any positive real number divided by any other real number PLUS 2 is always going to be at least 2!

As for the Gaim fleet itself.....

I had such high hopes for this revised list, I really did

Firstly. Most of their ships STILL HAVE BLOODY FLIGHT COMPUTERS thus negating the biggest penalty they take for losing queens. That said I cant actually see any ships with flight computers that arent queens themselves (but that brings up another issue which is that about 2/3 of the fleet seems to be queen ships.....)

Secondly. Their ships are still too damn tough, theyve still got loads of interceptors and high damage scores. And they still have loads of antifighter dice. Theyve got a bazillion fighters if they want interceptors or fighter defence they should have to use their fighters for this otherwise theyre free to use the fighters SOLELY as suicide drones and the fleet becomes an autopilot fleet, I have no problem with a fighter swarm fleet but the Gaim player should have to make some decisisions and mange his fighters tactically rather than just sitting his ships back and flying suicide drones at the most expensive target over and over.

Thridly. The emines are much better granted, in that theyve mostly halved the damage output but theye STILL too long range and theyve still got turrets, just because theyve got LESS turrets doesnt mean it doesnt still render them basically immune to enemy fighters even BEFORE their obscene anti fighter rating (which, oh noes, is only 6 dice of STANDARD antifighter rather than advanced :roll: on the a skrimish ship (though at least you cant spam them without fielding a higher level queen now).

Don't get me wrong, it IS an improvement, I just don't think it goes far enough really and I'm VERY disapointed to see flight computers still prevalent . I DO like the new queen rules though limiting you to only 1 of the biggest queen type.

Only time will tell how they actually fare in games now but I must admit I was hoping for more than this

 

[TGT]

well carte blanche seeing all the tourneys the sentient rabbits run won't be using Gaim I can't care less!

I'd like to hear Triggys reasoning though. He usually makes a lot of sense and genuinely would've tried to make this a ballanced fleet!

 

[Jim?]

Actually, looking through the list, I think it's vastly improved compared to the initial Gaim fleet... and I was extremely sceptical about the changes before reading.

Most of my biggest concerns have been delt with, there are about half the number of breaching pods in the fleet, and more importently, they are down to speed 6 which means that even Narn ships should get at least one turn of firing on them before they get to make contact. With careful ship movement, you can easilly deal with this threat now, where before massed waves of B. Pods were a nightmare. Furthermore, there is no Assault drone special rule.

Crewed missiles are down to speed 9, dodge 4+, making them easier to combat.

The E-mines have been generally reduced in range, and are S/L. Only 1 is turreted, meaning that you can reduce the fire your ships take when closing dramatically, and getting out of front arc cuts the emine fire you take by half. Sure, they are now DD, but they effectively lost about half of their AD, and are slow loading to boot, meaning that they are now about 1/4 as effective on most Gaim ships.

The number of fighters have been reduced by 1/3.

I like the war level queen, and that the battle level queen is a carrier... they are now much better options than the Raid or skirmish queens, and means you should now have a chance of init sinking against the gaim and picking your targets with a boresighted fleet.

There is a reason to take the gunship.

The skirmish queen has been heavily beaten with the nerf stick (it needed it!) and is down to range 20.

The assault ship is down to hull 5 (YES!!!)

Personally, I'd now *like* to fight this fleet, as it should be an intersting challenge, instead of a boring slog.

Just my 20p worth.

 

[skavendan]

They added interceptors or they have them before?

 

[TGT]

yeah I really think the amount of Intwerceptors is way too much!
i think over 5 is excessive and on raid level ships 3! is a big advantage...but as Jim says thank god for fewer breaching pods!

 

[Burger]

OK, read the Gaim now. They're on the ship viewer, too :lol:
IMO it is a very good change!!! Here's a summary:

• Flight Computers are totally removed from all non-Queen ships, which is where they needed to be removed from. Keeping them on Queens is neither here nor there. FC's only come into effect when all the Queens are dead, anyway. It is a bit strange how the Shrutaa lost it though, when the other Queens didn't. Maybe the Fleet Carrier is a typo and should be Flight Computer?
• All AF is now not advanced. Good riddance
• All e-mines aare now double damage, and slow loading. This is a nerf to anti-fighter ability, but a boost to anti-ship (higher alpha strike).
• Mostly, e-mines are now one tube T, one tube F. Whilst it hampers the "move sideways" ability, it does give protection from 4-6 and 6-4 crits.
• ISD's increased. Interesting that for nearly 100 years, a Gaim fleet consisted entirely of Breaching Pods!
• Breaching Pod speed reduced to 6
• Klikkita speed increased from 12 to 14
• Crewed missile speed reduced from 10 to 9
• Sataaka damage increased, 1 less flight, e-mines double damage, beam doubled. This is a massive boost.
• Shrutaa has 2 less pods, gains fleet carrier, e-mines consolidated into 2 tubes. Overall, a boost (assuming Fleet Carrie is not a typo for Flight Computer).
• Shaakak interceptors reduced from 5 to 4
• Shuuka lost its pods, carrier reduced from 4 to 3, e-mines reduced.
• Skrunnka hull reduced from 6 to 5, fightes reduced to 2, pods reduced to 8, carrier reduced from 6 to 3
• Stak damage increased, e-mines removed
• Stuteeka fighters reduced to 16, pods reduced to 2, lost Fleet Carrier

In summary...

 

[Locutus9956]

They had them before which was part of the problem with them being too tough. I was personally hoping for fleet that relies on standing off and launching fighters they would have the decency to be at least a bit vulnerbale once they get in close, but nope, theyre hard as nails still

Still I'm loathe to judge them too harshly till I've played with/against the new list.

 

[skavendan]

looks good to me thus far!

 

[Court Jester]

well carte blanche seeing all the tourneys the sentient rabbits run won't be using Gaim I can't care less!

I'd like to hear Triggys reasoning though. He usually makes a lot of sense and genuinely would've tried to make this a ballanced fleet!

I'd hope that now thay have been revised you might reverse that call...

 

[Locutus9956]

Oh dont get me wrong it IS a nerf and a sizeable one, I just dislike the fact that theyve still got turreted emines, less to be sure but still enough dispose of fighters quite effectively and their ships still strike me as rather tough (especially vs non beam weapons with very high interceptors and hull ratings).

I DO like the fact they havent got fleet carrier all over the place, it makes dealing with the fighters ALOT less painful in that you can focus on killing the one big queen and that should take the edge off the fleet quite nicely. Only time will tell though.

 

[Burger]

Yeah I think Gaim are now good for tourneys, I know I usually disagree with everything just on general principle but I think the new Gaim list is great!

Yeah yeah I know - who am I and what have I done with Burger

 

[Locutus9956]

well carte blanche seeing all the tourneys the sentient rabbits run won't be using Gaim I can't care less!

I'd like to hear Triggys reasoning though. He usually makes a lot of sense and genuinely would've tried to make this a ballanced fleet!

I'd hope that now thay have been revised you might reverse that call...

aye, I'd strongly suggest that banning an official list after its been revised is just going to alienate folks who only have one fleet. Besides Gaim are really nice minis and if the new list proves ok in play I'd personally love to play against them.

 

[Jim?]

Yeah I think Gaim are now good for tourneys, I know I usually disagree with everything just on general principle but I think the new Gaim list is great!

Yeah yeah I know - who am I and what have I done with Burger

I agree with you... I'm actually looking forward to playing against the Gaim now. They actually look fun, and about on par with the Brakiri/Vree in power level, now... instead of untouchable by any other fleet.

 

[skavendan]

Yeah I think Gaim are now good for tourneys, I know I usually disagree with everything just on general principle but I think the new Gaim list is great!

Yeah yeah I know - who am I and what have I done with Burger

Yup I agree time to get it all on your website eh bugger chop chop :twisted:

 

[H]

I wish i had bought some now, the models were ace, but i didn't buy them cos they were broken statwise, damnit!

 

[Greg Smith]

The Queen ships are tough - remember they not only give double VPs but have a big downside to killing them all.

Only Queens have Flight Computers.

Notice that the warrior drones no longer get to roll two dice and pick the highest.

Only the biggest Queens get Fleet carrier.

The three worst offenders in the old fleet were toned down quite considerably - the carrier, the skirmish queen, the assault ship.

The emines are intended to be ship killers. Also the change in arcs means there will be no more moving sideways alongside the far edge of the board and firing at extreme range (except with the carrier).

Conversion of fighters is no longer an immediate thing - the superior speed and dodge of the Klikkita compared to the Klikkitak means that conversion must be done at the right time.

The gunship is now a viable choice compared to the skirmish Queen.

 

[MongooseMatt]

[*]ISD's increased. Interesting that for nearly 100 years, a Gaim fleet consisted entirely of Breaching Pods!

Ah, wait until you have seen Stage Two of the Gaim plan