naughty vashna

[Thurse]

Hi everybody!

In the LW RPG main book, it is said that Naar created 20 darklords, and that Vashna killed 2 of them. But in the darklands sourcebook, all the darklords except Vashna are still living...

Is it an error or have I missed something?

Thanks

 

[Confused Wolf]

Hi Thurse!

In another thread August gave this answer:

Essentially, there is a disparity of sorts between the notes and sources the RPG is based on and the numbers involved. This is really not a problem, as it is one of Naar's explicit powers to be able to spawn and even ressurrect minions not directly slain by divinities or agents of divinities other than himself.

Thus, there is no real paradox as Naar could simply (and as far as the author is concerned did) bring back Darklords once other Darklords slew them. Odds are, this happened ~constantly~ in the early years of the Darklands as the Darklords jockeyed for position. Odds are each death took its toll on their powers to the point where the Darklords agreed silently not to kill each other any more... unless it suited their needs.

After all, if one considers the non-chalant way Gnaag takes the death of Taktaal in the throne room of Helgedad, it could easily be seen that Gnaag assumed his 'brother' would return soon. If they were really deathless beings from which obvilion was inescapable, he would probably have taken the annihilation of a 'loyal' Darklord a LOT harder.

Just a thought,
-August

 

[Thurse]

oups sorry!

 

[columbob]

oups sorry!

You don't need to apologize, it was a good question.

 

[Anonymous]

good point, naar can and does bring the darklords back and if anyone asks "why not vashna" well lets go to one of the texts; the sacrifice of ruanon:

" 'I VASHNA CURSE YOU TO ETERNITY FALSE MASTER!'
And I Naar says a crystal cold voice in your deformed mind, curse you to eternity, Vashna"and the passage goes on the maakengorge being created to consume Vashna, and as Big V has lost the dark god's good graces i dont think he will be brought back
not bad for my first forum entry ever, eh?

 

[Ghost Bear]

Nope, not bad at all. But that's in the Legends, and I prefer to believe that it was Ulnar I who killed Vashna, as stated in a Lone Wolf Club Newsletter (issue 9 I think).

More conclusive is this part of August's message:

not directly slain by divinities or agents of divinities other than himself.

Vashna was killed by Ulnar I, who had latent Kai powers and was wielding the Sommerswerd. So he was killed by an agent of Kai. Same goes for Zagarna, Haakon, Kraagenskul, Taaktal and Gnaag who were all killed by Lone Wolf.

Of course, this means that the other Darklords who died at the end of Book 12 were technically not killed by an agent of Kai, and could, at some point in the future, be brought back by Naar. Which would make an interesting development in any campaign set post-5075.

-GB

 

[Anonymous]

i wasnt saying that naar killed Vashna and i believe it was unlnar who killed him too, what i was saying is naar refuses to bring back vashna for that damnation bit. whats wrong with legends anyway, i prefer them to the gamebooks personally

 

[Ghost Bear]

Many people have enormous problems with the Legends. There are several topics on it over at the Project Aon boards. I won't post links, because I'm unsure of the rules for doing that here, and because I don't particularly want to start a 'why I don't/do like the Legends' debate. But the search function over there works well.

-GB

 

[columbob]

I haven't read them yet, but the main problem seems to be the Mary Sues.

 

[Reginald de Curry]

I haven't read them yet, but the main problem seems to be the Mary Sues.

That is the general sentiment.

 

[Ra]

Mary Sue?

edit: never mind. found a good explanation here: http://www.subreality.com/marysue/explain.htm

Well, "Mary Sue" is an unkind term used to describe a certain kind of character, a style of writing. She (or he) is created to serve one purpose: wish fulfilment. When a writer invents someone through whom he/she can have fantastic adventures and meet famous people (fictional or real), this character is a Mary Sue.

 

[Anonymous]

Of course, this means that the other Darklords who died at the end of Book 12 were technically not killed by an agent of Kai, and could, at some point in the future, be brought back by Naar. Which would make an interesting development in any campaign set post-5075.

-GB

Actually, I think blowing the Transfusor counts as a Lone Wolf action, or at the very least a Rimoah action. Either of which is an attack from the agents of Kai, so the Darklords could very well have been permanently wiped.

All depends on how far you take "directly," I guess. Even so, after each and every Darklord is killed because his line of power got cut off, whether he could or couldn't, Naar decided to scrap the Darklords plan and work through other agents, such as Cadak.

 

[Anonymous]

There's another way to take it. That if a Darklord is not slain by a goodly artifact like the Sommerswerd then they can be resurrected. It's pretty clear in Curse of Naar that Haakon, Gnaag and the rest are running around tormented on the Plain of Tortured Souls.

Probably something happened that made Vashna's death at Ulnar's hand incomplete. Perhaps Naar intervened or Vashna's dagger preserved some element of his soul on Magnamund(which is why you use it to bring him back or the mighty Deathstaff.)

I think, though, that Gnaag treated the death of his 'brother' so callously because THAT IS WHAT EVIL IS. Sure, they always whined and raged when you killed their own summonings or minions, but Gnaag probably felt like he was THIS close to being Naar's favored son and ending the war between Good and Evil. So, who cares if Taktaal gets taken out?

Although one would wonder why Gnaag wouldn't be a bit apprehensive that you had another zejar-dulaga

And in all honesty, I think even Joe has changed(as any of us might) some aspects of the history of his creation. I've seen a number of what I'd consider inconsistencies or changes from the first book to the RPG. It happens.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Gnaag wasn't stupid. As the saying goes, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I kinda figured he didn't mind Taktaal being killed because he didn't really like him, and it saved him the political fallout of having him killed himself.

 

[Baron Von Ed]

If we're speculating for the sake of it then it's possible I suppose that any Darklords that were killed early on were replaced with new ones by Naar. I suppose it adds a survival of the fittest element to them. This way Naar isn't resurrecting Darklords that have already proved their inferiority. Once they start fighting the forces of light and getting killed by them, then Naar has less excuse to be able to make more.