NA Tourny, 1250 pts, fleet choices???

[lastbesthope]

So the way I figure it at 1250 points, you probably want to have a Carrier OR a heavy hitter in your fleet (Cruiser or Dread).

I did think what if I had 6 Destroyers? But while it''s a good swarm ffleet, it sort of lacks the capacity for a knockout blow that a Cruiser or Dreadnought would have, but then in a Hawkwood fleet they move so slow they might not get in the game.

Though since I only have 4 Destroyers (EDITED: I meant Destroyers) the point is moot.

Or you could go the carrier option, but how would a Carrier based fleet stack up against a non carrier fleet at that points level,. or vice versa.

So who's got what thoughts on possible tourny fleet makeups for the July tourny???

LBH

 

[Clanger]

I like the sound of

Hazat Canai Cruiser
Hazat Manticore Destroyers x 3
Hazat Stalker Explorer
Hazat Scorpion Frigates x 2
Then rest of the points taken up with Troop upgrades.

 

[starbreaker]

So what is that altogether, 6 x Hawkwood destroyers, 3 x Explorers, 4 bonus Marauders somewhere?

Seems like a pretty good mix to me. You'll be straining against a dread if the crits don't go in your favor - but lasers should pile on crits fast enough to ruin a dread quickly. Destroyers are a good size - big enough for Hull 5, small enough to make it easy to use Maximum Firepower without suffering badly from its drawbacks. Plenty of scout guidance and great fleet speed.

Your boarding is a little light though - if some smart guy shows up with a pure boarding fleet you could be hurting. Can you stop, say, 3 Hazat galliots and 8 frigates with your guns before they force you into a corner, steal your ships, and use them against the rest of your fleet? Or at least stop enough of them to offset their troop edge - 90 to 51 is fairly awful.

 

[lastbesthope]

So what is that altogether, 6 x Hawkwood destroyers, 3 x Explorers, 4 bonus Marauders somewhere?

Like you say, likes the big punch for a knockout blow, plus I only have 4 Destroyers...

LBH

 

[locarno24]

Looking at the Kurga, with the Yildugh-class destroyer being nice and cheap you could fit in something like 8 of them, with at least one Grimson Power Suit unit on each ship.

Granted, they're not that well armed - 14 guns, all of them innaccurate, but on the other hand they're all slow as well.

Hmm...might give that one a try.

 

[starbreaker]

Looking at the Kurga, with the Yildugh-class destroyer being nice and cheap you could fit in something like 8 of them, with at least one Grimson Power Suit unit on each ship.

Granted, they're not that well armed - 14 guns, all of them innaccurate, but on the other hand they're all slow as well.

Hmm...might give that one a try.

I wouldn't skip on their galliots either. Even worse guns but it's a galliot so who cares, and 4 free Grimsons. If nothing else, they'd draw fire from your destroyers, giving those cruddy Inaccurate guns more time to shoot. With no scout guidance on your shooting, you're going to need it.

 

[lastbesthope]

Well my previous thoughts have been of the Dreadnought, 3 Destroyers, 2 Scouts, troops or Cruiser, 4 Destroyers, 2 Scouts, Troops variety.

Think 1250 might be a bit small for a Dreadnought in the game though, maybe at 1500 or 2000

LBH

 

[barnest2]

(Note, I don't play the rules. I hope tactical thought still applies)
I'd go with the cruiser and 4 destroyers. More hulls for one thing. More tactical manoeuvrability. And you still have something with enough punch to threaten bigger ships.

 

[lastbesthope]

Tossing up between Cruiser, 4 Destroyers, 2 Scouts and troops

OR

Cruiser, 3 Destroyers, 2 Frigates and 2 Scouts

Or maybe the dreadnought option....

LBH

 

[barnest2]

Cruiser, 3 dests, 2 frigs. Better choice of combat hulls.

Drop the dreadnought fleets. Not enough points for a viable fleet.

 

[starbreaker]

Tossing up between Cruiser, 4 Destroyers, 2 Scouts and troops

Taking 2 frigates instead of a destroyer is a losing match in a gunfight every time, and you're not configured for boarding. Make sure you cripple/kill the enemy galliots/stealthships and Hazat/Kurgan frigates before they reach you to board, and keep the scouts at as close to 36" from the enemy as possible as long as possible.

 

[lastbesthope]

Both the last 2 posts are good points, it's just a feel thing, frigates give you more hulls, but destroyers gives you more combat effectiveness.
Bought a whole second fleet box, cruiser, dreadnought and Osprey and all I needed for the 2nd tourney was 2 more destroyers.

Still 5180 points is not to be sniffed at.

LBH

 

[starbreaker]

I'd rather just take another couple of explorers if I want more hulls on the table - unless you're Hazat you get two for every frigate and it's hard to really have too much scouting on the table - although I play Al Malik and need it far more than Hawkwood laser boats do. Having more hulls is great for maneuvering and boarding, but initiative sinks are useless when the shooting phase starts. You want to hurt the other guy as much as you can as early as you can - main reason cruisers and dreads are worth their cost is the potential to smash significant numbers of enemy guns in a single volley, and to retain your full firepower when shot at by a smaller hull (barring weapon crits, the bane of big ships everywhere).

If I ever thought I'd use more than 4 frigates at once I'd have gone with a second box already myself. I suppose I could always ebay the excess.

 

[barnest2]

... i really want to get into this game now. Damn you people
How much are the rules?

 

[locarno24]

How much are the rules?

Pretty cheap if you're happy with a PDF.


So....
Got the rulebook, got the kurgan fleet list, drooling over various thoughts.
Looking for some advice, really.

I've only had a few games, and those mostly settled by shooting. So galliots and fighters are, If I'm honest, a new thing.

I keep hearing (and understand why) people make a point of shooting the snot out of galliots - it must be annoying for it to happen once grappled, juuust before dumping a regiment of marines on your enemy's capital ship, though.



My thoughts are sort of thus:

1) No real desire for big ships, plus the fact that the Caliphate's capital ships aren't yet up for preorder would make me nervous waiting. As with Al-Malik, an entirely slow arsenal means I don't really need big ships in the same way as anyone can land hits on any target, no matter how heavily shielded.

2) I'm happy to be told to wind my neck in by more experienced players, so I'm going to stop suggesting raiders are viable combat units. Again, the Mujahidin is only in the fleet list as a CG image, so probably a good thing.

3) That leaves the 100-150 point ship bracket - galliot, destroyer and light carrier.

4) How effective is a pure boarding fleet? Ten galliots, with an extra grimson each, seems like a slightly suicidal approach but it'd certainly get people's attention....

 

[Rick]

Oh, I don't know locarno - although it does definately qualify for an "all or nothing" fleet! I'm guessing that the thinking behind it is your opponent can't possibly kill all 10 galliot's before a couple get into boarding actions? Then just start taking his ships down!

 

[locarno24]

I'm guessing that the thinking behind it is your opponent can't possibly kill all 10 galliot's before a couple get into boarding actions?

So goes the theory, at least. Kurgan galliots are as fast and manouvrable as frigates and with 5 grimsons on each one you've got an 'effective' 15 marine units; so if you go all or nothing you can probably sieze a cruiser.

 

[starbreaker]

A pure-galliot fleet can work, and Kurgans are probably the best race to do it with due to the free Grimsons. The fact that the galliot guns are so terrible is actually a plus - the enemy gains very little from counterboarding them with other ships while their troops are off on another ship, unlike (say) a Hazat galliot whose guns are really a meaningful threat when they change hands.

Remember that they don't need to kill the galliots, though - simply crippling them will generally render them ineffective, since a 6" move restricts your boarding threat range severely. You're still bound to get some through and the cripples might provide a game-winning follow-up wave, but a good shooting fleet can probably wreck 3-4 per turn if they just want cripples. You need to get there by turn 2 or 3 at the latest if you're going to make it work.

Also, watch out for destroyer-sized (or larger) enemies who lurk by a table edge. Unless you can clear their troops in a single round of fighting, they can respond by flying off the table the next turn, dragging your galliot and troops with them. You'll come out slightly ahead (15 points for a destroyer vs galliot) on VP earned for tactical withdrawal, but it's worth much less than an outright capture and it takes your ship and troops out of play. If the shooter fleet cripples or destroys too many of you before the boarding starts, you can wind up with such a VP deficit you can't win against this tactic.