MRQ review in Roolipelaaja (Roleplayer) magazine, Finland

[Urox]

I had all these wyrms footnotes but I didnt enjoy them very much. I bought them I think 1987 or so from an old friend of mine (he was not interested in roleplaying anymore), because I thought they have many cool rule stuff for RQ3 in it. But that was not true. Their production quality have been very low (often just a bunch of pages with a weird layout), different paper sizes and they contained only old RQ1 und RQ2 stuff and material for White bear and red moon.

#1 sold for just over $300 on ebay earlier this (it was Greg's copy, and he says a total of 200 were made).

Given that, I would guess a total of $700-1000US for a complete run in mint condition.

What I wanted to say is that with 2nd age Glorantha, there will be a lot of other people (non-Gloranthaphiles) attracted, because they are Mongoosophiles.

Yikes! I just looked at Mongooses release page -- almost $300 product just this month. That's gotta hurt if that's their normal schedule.

 

[atgxtg]

If the "old guard" were not the "target audience" then why did all of Mongooses ad's target them?

Oh, come on. They didn't specifically target anyone with their ads, they just used creative marketing.

Oh come on yourself. The last time Steve Perrin wrote a RQ prodcut was so far back that only the RQ vets would care if his name was mentioned or not. Putting his name down in connection with a new edtion of RQ was targeted directly at the old RQ vets. Everyone else would have said, "Steve Perrin, who's he?"

It's not the D&Ders who are going to flock to the stores to buy an non-D&D product. THere are those who play other systems, but they have no reason (as yet) to pick up RQ over any other RPG. THat might change when the setting come out, but as of right now the only peole who are interested in RQ are the "old guard".

Classic is "in'. Look at the classic games that have be re-worked in the last few years. Warhammer Fantasy Role Play. Castles & Crusades. RuneQuest. They're all trying to capture new gamers with that "classic" feel.

Warhammer and Clastles & Crusades are considered classics? Wow, now I feel old.

 

[atgxtg]

Weirdness. The other day, when my wife asked me what was up with RuneQuest and why some people were concerned, I gave her the analogy of the classic Mustang vs. ones that were introduced in the mid-70s. She, not knowing much about cars, responded with "like New Coke vs Coke Classic?"

I think your wife got it just right. New Coke vs. Classic Coke.

 

[iamtim]

Warhammer and Clastles & Crusades are considered classics? Wow, now I feel old.

Green Ronin developed a new, updated version of Warhammer FRP for Black Industries that was released last year, I think.

Castles & Crusades was developed specifically to capture the classic D&D feel that is completely absent from D&D/d20 today.

Both the original Warhammer FRP and the D&D that C&C was developed to "emulate" are, in fact, considered "classic" RPGs.

 

[atgxtg]

You order a game because there is the name of Perrin on it?

Yeah. I liked every other RPG prodict that I have bought that Steve Perrin worked on, so I figured it was the best chance of a sure thing for me. I didn't buy it becuase Mongoose produced it. No slight to Mongoose, but I don't like D&D/d20 and so own only ONE other Mongoose Product, OGL Ancients, which, BTW I Like. It strikes me as being a lot like old RQ.

Why did you order the game?

 

[Enpeze]

You order a game because there is the name of Perrin on it?

Yeah. I liked every other RPG prodict that I have bought that Steve Perrin worked on, so I figured it was the best chance of a sure thing for me. I didn't buy it becuase Mongoose produced it. No slight to Mongoose, but I don't like D&D/d20 and so own only ONE other Mongoose Product, OGL Ancients, which, BTW I Like. It strikes me as being a lot like old RQ.

Why did you order the game?

I didnt order it yet. I think I will do it next month or so. I will order it, because I want to try it out. If I like it, I will play it more often. If I dont like it, it wanders to my shelves. (the place near Elric!)

I will still buy the MRQ source material which appears in the future. (especially Lankhmar) It should be easy to convert it to the homemade BRP we use in our group at the moment.

The next big step in BRP is surely DBRP which should be out till Xmas I think.

 

[Adept]

Btw: all these advantage/disadvantage mumbo jumbo is one of the reason I dont play GURPS. (while the rest of the system sounds quite good to me) This is one way to munchkinism, and a very modern and sneaky one.

Wow. We couldn't be further apart on this.

I assume that munchkinism comment is aimed at point-buy character creation, and taking disadvantages to get more character points?

Well, guess what. Even that is helpful. I've seen very mechanistical "real man" roleplayers (with Rune Quest 3 background) looking at the disadvantages and thinking about what would fit their character. This actually results in the character having more personality, and the gamer thinking about the characters personality much more than when he was just rolling for stats and calculating his beginning crossbow skill.

But as I said, the advantage/disadvantage thing is mostly about getting more subtle differences between characters (characters with similar skills and stats can be very different from each other with these), and a handy shorthand for remembering a seldom used NPC:s personality and flavour.

"The sense of duty" disadvantage is one of my favorites, and a good way to model an important part of human nature.

 

[atgxtg]

I didnt order it yet. I think I will do it next month or so. I will order it, because I want to try it out. If I like it, I will play it more often. If I dont like it, it wanders to my shelves. (the place near Elric!) {/quote]

For me that place, where Elric! is, in in a box in my closet. If I really don't like MRQ. I'll probably ger rid of it. I can always use store credit.

I will still buy the MRQ source material which appears in the future. (especially Lankhmar) It should be easy to convert it to the homemade BRP we use in our group at the moment.

I'm not so sure the two games will convert easily. MRQ has enough changes and special abilities that character mightnot translate so easily. THew differences in how skill checks are awarded will make RQ/BRP character more skilled in a borad-based way as compared to MRQ character, who will probably have more concetrated skill ratings.

The next big step in BRP is surely DBRP which should be out till Xmas I think.

THat's a safe call. It is really the only step in BRP. It will be interesting to see how DBRP and MRQ affect each other. It could be mutually benficial, or you could see the RQ community split up into camps with one side refusing to buy products from the other. Probably a bit of both.

 

[SteveMND]

The next big step in BRP is surely DBRP which should be out till Xmas I think

Mmm, I'll believe this one when I see it. In searching the web earlier this year for any info on DBRP, I found posts and discussions ranging back nearly three years, all saying essentially "it looks like it should be coming out in a few months."

 

[iamtim]

Mmm, I'll believe this one when I see it. In searching the web earlier this year for any info on DBRP, I found posts and discussions ranging back nearly three years, all saying essentially "it looks like it should be coming out in a few months."

I'm with you on that one. I love Chaosium -- always have -- but my faith in them is nearly non-existent. I was surprised when they actually shipped me my Yellow Sign dice bag in a timely manner.

 

[atgxtg]

The next big step in BRP is surely DBRP which should be out till Xmas I think

Mmm, I'll believe this one when I see it. In searching the web earlier this year for any info on DBRP, I found posts and discussions ranging back nearly three years, all saying essentially "it looks like it should be coming out in a few months."

I believe that there is a monograph that can be special ordered, and rthat has been around for a couple of years. THe story is, that Chaosium is going to print a new DBRP book that is nearly RQ3 verbatim.

I would seem to make sense for them to get a BRP game out there. It makes even more sense if they have an rpg setting to support it.

 

[Harshax]

The next big step in BRP is surely DBRP which should be out till Xmas I think

Mmm, I'll believe this one when I see it. In searching the web earlier this year for any info on DBRP, I found posts and discussions ranging back nearly three years, all saying essentially "it looks like it should be coming out in a few months."

We're playtesting.

 

[andakitty]

And, at least in this case, the author (Jason Durall) has had some serious real-life stuff going on the last year or two. The way he talks about it over on rpg.net, I think there is definitely a manuscript plus. Last word there was 'Halloween to Christmas'.

 

[atgxtg]

And, at least in this case, the author (Jason Durall) has had some serious real-life stuff going on the last year or two. The way he talks about it over on rpg.net, I think there is definitely a manuscript plus. Last word there was 'Halloween to Christmas'.

I wonder if it is going to be different that RQ3 then. From what I had heard, it was going to be RQ3 in all but name. It wouldn't have taken much for people to type the RQ3 stuff into a computer, make the necessary changes, and put it all together for printing. THey must be making sort alterations.

 

[Cobra]

THat's a safe call. It is really the only step in BRP. It will be interesting to see how DBRP and MRQ affect each other. It could be mutually benficial, or you could see the RQ community split up into camps with one side refusing to buy products from the other. Probably a bit of both.

Is it really a safe call? There is absolutely no mention of this on Chaosium's website. A release by Halloween? I'm sorry, but that's only two and a half months away. If chaosium was serious about a deluxe BRP they ought to be at least advertising it over the cheapest medium they've got - their own website! While I have to say that I've always liked their products (including my recent purchase of SB5 - Thankyou to andakitty and archer for the recommendation) but I don't think much of their business sense or commitment to supporting a product other than CoC. I won't consider it a 'safe call' until I see it AND some evidence that they will support it.

I'm no Gloranthaphile, so a deluxe BRP would suit me just fine - but I do want to see it supported with quality supplements like in Chaosium's heyday. I was really looking forward to new RQ, but now I'm seriously thinking it's not for me, and would be willing to wait for DBRP before making a final decision.

If there's anyone out there working for Chaosium - if you're serious about the product, make it official. I will hold off buying MRQ until I see that product (or perhaps a second edition of MRQ). If you're not serious about it, please don't waste my time with rumours or cryptic comments about playtesting.

Cobra

 

[SteveMND]

We're playtesting

Well, that's good. I think I only saw posts saying "we're in playtest now" dating back merely two years.

Is it really a safe call? There is absolutely no mention of this on Chaosium's website. A release by Halloween? I'm sorry, but that's only two and a half months away. If chaosium was serious about a deluxe BRP they ought to be at least advertising it over the cheapest medium they've got - their own website!

While I don't know the details, my understanding is that Chaosium kept getting burned on changing release dates and such so much that they pretty much did a full 180 and now don't bother advertising release dates until they practically have the books back from the printers. One extreme to the other, I suppose.

 

[andakitty]

Yep. And I never said it was for sure, just passing along Jason's hopes, I think. Chaosium is doing better, but still...best not to get worked up until we see it, for sure.

It's not a game system, per se. It is a compilation of rules, sort of a toolkit for prospective gamemasters to build a customized system. To go out on limb a little, similar to Grim Tales for D20. A toolkit with rules options from most if not all BRP games that have seen print and maybe some that have not. So the rules from RQ3 might be in it, along side RQ2, Stormbringer, CoC, WoW, Ringworld, and so on. Then you take the ones you like best. My main hope for it right now is that it can be used easily with some of these nifty settings that are forthcoming for MRQ from Mongoose.

 

[atgxtg]

Is it really a safe call? Cobra

In terms of it bein g the next big step in BRP, probably. It's the only step. I don't see any other signs of new life for BRP.

Of course they now have sort of the same problem that others have, not many experienced RQ writers. The company split into 3 different companies left a lot of the old writers working for Issaries or Green Knight.

 

[Vadrus]

The latest issue of Roolipelaaja was delivered today, and has a two page review of the new RuneQuest. The review isn't all that positive, I have to say.

For score MRQ get's 4/5 stars for production values, 2,5/5 stars for content and 3/5 stars overall.

I'm very surprised that MRQ get's that high of a value for production. I don't care for the large margins, grey borders, and pencil drawings. I would have prefered less images of pen & ink quality, no borders, smaller margins, and slightly denser text. Granted my criticism bleeds into content, so your mileage may vary.

Funny thing. The actual text in the review talks about low production values, and how cheap the book looks. The four stars I mentioned are what are given as a mark in a box at the beginning of the review. Parhaps that is in error, and the reviewer actually meant there to be two or three.

Hope the other books are better proof read than the core book though, every time I look at it I seem to find more typos or errors.

My favourite so far though has to be the spells in the example cult write up for the Storm King, the first one 'Blade of Virtue' doesn't appear to exist as a spell in the core rule book and the third one 'Skybolt' requires you to have the Chaos rune intergrated, not bad for a cult whose worshipper duties include 'Defeating the forces of chaos'

Infact the three runes a worshipper of the Storm God needs to cast the cult spells shown are Stasis?, Mastery and Chaos??

All in all the whole magic seems a bit messed up, if you actually look at what spells are available many Runes only have one spell associated with them i.e. chaos only has Skybolt, Infinity only had Multi-missile, etc. It looks like casters are expected to go round with a bag full of runes if the want to be able to actually react to different situations.

I was so looking forward to the new system, but so far it all seems terribly amateurish and rushed


Vadrus


Edit: Oh btw I love the fact the only spell a chaos rune user can cast does 3d6 damage that ignores armour, especially when you note the effect of the chaos rune itself i.e. it reduces any resists (in this case dodge skill) by 30% Chaos may be nasty but damn is it effective

 

[Enpeze]

I'm not so sure the two games will convert easily. MRQ has enough changes and special abilities that character mightnot translate so easily. THew differences in how skill checks are awarded will make RQ/BRP character more skilled in a borad-based way as compared to MRQ character, who will probably have more concetrated skill ratings.

Well, I am not so sure. As GM I can alway oversee the things and allow my players only skills which are logical to improve. (eg. skills they have used in the game) Even if the MRQ basic rule say that the player has a free choice which skill to improve, I use my GMs power to regulate this a little bit.

The next big step in BRP is surely DBRP which should be out till Xmas I think.

THat's a safe call. It is really the only step in BRP. It will be interesting to see how DBRP and MRQ affect each other. It could be mutually benficial, or you could see the RQ community split up into camps with one side refusing to buy products from the other. Probably a bit of both.

This is a harsh word, because it means that MRQ is not BRP. As far as I can see this system now, I dont agree. MRQ is not farther from BRP than say Pendragon.

Regarding to the influence both system will have to each other, I think this will be a very good one especially for BRP. MRQ brings many new players interested in "our gritty" way to play roleplaying games. So BRP and of course chaosium could profit from this in the long run. Of course they can screw it (its obviously that their marketing abilities are not as high as their abilities in game design) but I hope not.

If there are 2 camps with fanatical followers which shun each other, maybe this could be, but I would not overestimate it. The division happened even with RQ (pro and contra Glorantha) and it happened with Glorantha (pro and contra HQ) so it seems to be a normal human (orlanthi?) way to behave.