MRQ review in Roolipelaaja (Roleplayer) magazine, Finland

[Enpeze]

...or a critical anywhere in Stormbringer combined with a low armor roll. For instance, a broadsword with no damage bonus, and an average roll for damage, combined with a critical and a roll so low it provides no protection. 5.5 x 2=11. Average hit points? 11. Two handed sword average is 18 on a critical there, and that is usually a major wound WITH a good armor roll...with no damage bonus added. What fun! And then you take into account the blade venoms available, like 1d10 or 1d20 extra damage. No, I think MRQ is going to be a pussycat in comparison...and as atgxtg points out, there is still Call of Cthulu, where the result of the attack of many monsters is...death, but don't worry, you are already too crazy to notice. Any previous version of RQ, where hardly a combat goes by without an amputation. And so on. :lol:

PS; Ask Rurik about the first time he fought a little trollkin.

While I think that SB has a very interesting concept and I played it sometimes as GM, I found always that it suffers from 3 things.

First for some people I know the world of MM is more flower-power and 70ties and this is not for everybody. Regrettably the whole system is taylored to fit in the eternal hero setting. But that is sureley more a personal problem. Though it would be nice if SB had been released as a more generic system.

Second I was always a bit sceptical about the armor rolls. Its an additional roll which is questionable because it is against the usual BRP minimalism.

Third the critical hit table, while very nasty is also somewhat cumbersome during the heat of a battle. I mean its dark, the players are hopping around to live portray their actions a little bit, the rulebook is under the heap of chips and other books. Everybody is very concentrated and his mind is directed in surviving this nail biting situation.

And then? Everybody stop. Time out. Freeze. The GM has to look for a crit-table? Eh..which damned page...?

This is very distracting or? Maybe also a personal organization problem .

 

[MongooseMatt]

First, thanks for the reply.
However, I doubt that combining the Companion material into the rulebook (for a total of 216 pages, still smaller than most 'core rules') would not warrant a $60 price tag.

Others would want Glorantha in there as well

 

[MongooseMatt]

RQ 2/3 had a serious flaw in that it was all too easy to die.

This was certainly a factor in the design.

However, it is also not a set benchmark - the whole point of the Open Content of RuneQuest is that elements of the main rulebook can be whipped out, replaced with a rules 'module' and yet leave the rest of the system intact.

For example, we are working on an article for S&P that illustrates different weapons and armour tables (you could also play with the Hit Point table to round off the effect). You can have one for gritty/realistic combat that is truly deadly, and another for 'high adventure' which would be more like D&D in feel. The tables in the main rulebook are in the middle, though they lean more towards the deadly end, purely to give characters a chance to see more than a handful of adventures (Hero Points help here too).

As I said in another post, Open Content allows you to make RuneQuest _your_ game, selecting which rules and 'modules' you wish to see in your game, without tying you into the one 'true' way of a main rulebook. RuneQuest can be lots of different games to lots of different people.

In the future, it will be possible for a single publisher to do this, allowing you to construct your own rulebook from a series of different options. For now, however, Open Content is the best method of accomplishing this.

So, designers and would-be designers - get writing! There are a few bucks to be made in PDF RQ material right now. . .

 

[mthomason]

In the future, it will be possible for a single publisher to do this, allowing you to construct your own rulebook from a series of different options. For now, however, Open Content is the best method of accomplishing this.

Pick chapter options from the web, and print-on-demand?

 

[Adept]

Compare MRQ to Stormbringer, though. :shock:

Or any other Chaosium RPG. Wounds that have MRQ player rolling resistance checks would have other BRPers rolling new characters. A critical with a spear to the chest? Hmm, that's 18+1d4 through worn armor. Not much in the player character range can live to tell about that one.

The critical (especially impale) rules of RQ3 were rediculous. Double maximum damage that ignores armour. Blech.

I'm all for just taking one aspect of that. I hated how the old critical's worked.

In a version I did special success gave +1 to the damage roll, and a critical gave the +1 and ignored armour. That worked. Any successess in defense lowered that (so critical vs, special dodge = normal hit).

 

[Adept]

I meant to say that the gameplay experiences of the review writer seemed pretty quick and deadly, and that parhaps people who feel that the deadliness of RQ2/3 is missing in MRQ are mistaken.

Ah I understand. Then it seems the writer isnt used to play deadly rule systems. If this is true then he comes from a different direction of roleplaying and his review of MRQ should not be taken that serious at all.

I'm not taking it totally seriously, but that is not the reason. A review by a RQ diehard would be problematic. A review by an experienced RPGer that knows many mechanics gives a better picture overall.

Also the fights he describes take only one to three successful hits to finish, and the usual result is missing limbs. That sounds pretty RQ to me!

 

[atgxtg]

While I think that SB has a very interesting concept and I played it sometimes as GM, I found always that it suffers from 3 things.

First for some people I know the world of MM is more flower-power and 70ties and this is not for everybody. [/qoute]

The Young Kingodms, Flower power? HA! THe setting in about as far from the 'summer of love" type of setting as one can get. The Young Kingdoms is a prety dark and depressingh setting.

Regrettably the whole system is taylored to fit in the eternal hero setting. But that is sureley more a personal problem. Though it would be nice if SB had been released as a more generic system.

Well, it called Strombringer (or ELric) and is based on the Elric character from Michael Moorcocks works. It would have been wrong for it to not be based upon the setting it is trying to convey. I think most people would expect an RPG based upon something to have rules tailored to that setting. I know I do. Besides, the "generic" book for Stormbringer is really RQ or BRP. It is not tough to swipe out part of the RQ or SB mechanics for the other game.

Second I was always a bit sceptical about the armor rolls. Its an additional roll which is questionable because it is against the usual BRP minimalism.

Every Chasoium RQ is against the BRP minimalism. BRP was just written as a short into for novices to role-playing. No one was really expected to run campaings based on BRP. Remeber BRP was written after, and based on RQ2, not the other way around. BRP isn't the foundation of Chasoium games, just a doorway. SB's armor roll works reasaonable well for a location-free combat system. PErsonallty I'd have preffered a 2die rating for a more stable armor curve, but the concept is valid.

Third the critical hit table, while very nasty is also somewhat cumbersome during the heat of a battle. I mean its dark, the players are hopping around to live portray their actions a little bit, the rulebook is under the heap of chips and other books. Everybody is very concentrated and his mind is directed in surviving this nail biting situation.

And then? Everybody stop. Time out. Freeze. The GM has to look for a crit-table? Eh..which damned page...?

This is very distracting or? Maybe also a personal organization problem .

MOre like the latter.When I played I'd turn on the lights, pick up the place,get those greasy chips off of a nice RPG book, photcopy the chart and print up a GM screen. It is pretty much the only chart you need to look at during combat.

If is so dark that I can't read a chart, how am I going to read the foe's stats, or my dicce rolls, or my player's dice rolls.

Come to think of it, maybe theye should be an RPG written in braille and braille dice? THere is probably a good target group of potential RPGers being missed.

 

[atgxtg]

The critical (especially impale) rules of RQ3 were rediculous. Double maximum damage that ignores armour. Blech.

I'm all for just taking one aspect of that. I hated how the old critical's worked.

In a version I did special success gave +1 to the damage roll, and a critical gave the +1 and ignored armour. That worked. Any successess in defense lowered that (so critical vs, special dodge = normal hit).

Not rediculous. Having a spear running right through you is not exacly a paper cut. Crits were deadly in RQ. THe slash and Crsuh rules made the other weapons nasty too.

It is amazing jost how effective weapons are at maining and killing people.

 

[atgxtg]

In the future, it will be possible for a single publisher to do this, allowing you to construct your own rulebook from a series of different options.

Fusion attmpted something like this. They had check boxes with sections of the game and GM could check off what rules they wanted to use based upon is they wanted a realistic, heroic, or superheroic type of campaign. The game almost pulled it off.

BTW, I was looking over the damage chart, as well as the damage bonus for dragons. THere is sort of a problem with the "dip" down in die size. For instance, going for +2d12 to +3d6 is actually a drop in the damage bonus. This is going to get worse with each cycle through the die sizes. Going from 3d12 to 4d6 is a bigger drop, and so on.

Admittedly, this isn't the Giants & Dragons RPG (that would be a unquie supplement) so it won't come up very much, but is there a change if the damage bonus for the large and in charge?

 

[King Amenjar]

When it first appeared, for anyone who played the typical 1st level character in a hack and slash AD&D dungeon, RuneQuest was a welcome relief from the instant death we had become accustomed to. You could actually get hit without instantly dying! The main difference was that in contrast to AD&D, that possibility stayed with you forever - no matter how good you got, the pathetic town guard would eventually roll 01 and you would roll 96-00 on your parry...

 

[Enpeze]

Compare MRQ to Stormbringer, though. :shock:

Or any other Chaosium RPG. Wounds that have MRQ player rolling resistance checks would have other BRPers rolling new characters. A critical with a spear to the chest? Hmm, that's 18+1d4 through worn armor. Not much in the player character range can live to tell about that one.

The critical (especially impale) rules of RQ3 were rediculous. Double maximum damage that ignores armour. Blech.

Correct. In younger days I was engaged in martial arts for about 10 years and according to my experiences there I often thought the same thing. The most time its not so easy to kill someone as it is possible in RQ. Instead you cripple him or he receives a heavy wound after he cannot fight back. But then there is still some time till he is dead, (could be hours or even days) provided he dies at all.
In this respect GURPS is better than RQ. They seem to consult specialists before designing their damage system. Of course Gurps has other problems which prevents me from playing it.

So regarding damage MRQ could be better than RQ3 because its not so deadly if you play it out of the box.

 

[Urox]

However, I doubt that combining the Companion material into the rulebook (for a total of 216 pages, still smaller than most 'core rules') would not warrant a $60 price tag.

Others would want Glorantha in there as well

I may not be a marketing genious, but why not set the examples in 2A Glorantha? I would think that this would help drive sales of your Glorantha product line, as well as mollify some of the RQ old guard.

Also, is there an equivalent to the short introduction to Glorantha from the RQ2 books? I think those William Church maps were one of the greatest gateways to adventures -- ooh, this place has a cool name, I wonder what's there -- let's go see.

Also, given all the unused margin space, it would have been nice to see Gloranthan tidbits there as well.

 

[atgxtg]

Correct. In younger days I was engaged in martial arts for about 10 years and according to my experiences there I often thought the same thing. The most time its not so easy to kill someone as it is possible in RQ. Instead you cripple him or he receives a heavy wound after he cannot fight back. But then there is still some time till he is dead, (could be hours or even days) provided he dies at all.
In this respect GURPS is better than RQ. They seem to consult specialists before designing their damage system. Of course Gurps has other problems which prevents me from playing it.

So regarding damage MRQ could be better than RQ3 because its not so deadly if you play it out of the box.

It is a lot more difficut toget an "autokill" in real life than in any HP game. The whole HP concept really isn't valid. People don't suddenly make the transition from alive to dead any any 1 point threhsold It is just HP are an easy way to abstract a very complicated subject. For realism, TimeLords probably handled this the best. The wounds would give impairments, stun or knock you out, and most wounds would be eventually fatal, meaning that they would kill you eventually, IF you didn't take care of them. Depending on the severity of the injury eventually fatal could range from under a second to over a month.

One problem I have with MRQ is that without general HP, you can wind up with a character who has taken 3 point hits to every location walking around and fighting with no problems at all. I'm not saying he should be RQ3 dead, but he is at least banged up enough for say, a 20% penatly. A character could, concieveable be fighting AKO with 1 hp left in each location, walk into a flurry, and get quarted like a chicken.

Maybe a rule where you get penalties if your total damage taken is greater than your CON, SIZ or POW? mAybe unconsicous if damage is > SIZ+CON?

 

[Urox]

I don't have the book, but I did start this thread based on a finnish review.

In the review the writer seemed almost shocked at how quickly and brutally the fights went. He seemed to think the combat system was fast, furious and deadly (and isn't that what many people are missing from RQ2/3?).

He also said that reading the combat system it seemed confusing and non-workable, but in practise it worked fine.

Was there any indication if they were playing the rules correctly? It's quite possible they were going by the tables and not by the text.

If so, you can get some deadly results -- say you put two starting characters against each other, with padded armor and 25% Weapon skill. If it were misplayed that you always roll on defense, the attacker misses + defender misses = hit table entry will hit a lot more than 25% of the time, making the game seem more deadly...

 

[atgxtg]

I may not be a marketing genious, but why not set the examples in 2A Glorantha? I would think that this would help drive sales of your Glorantha product line, as well as mollify some of the RQ old guard.

Why pay Issaries just to use a couple fo Glorantha terms in the example? It adds color to the book, but it would probalby cost a lot for what you got.

Or do want a $30 book?

 

[Adept]

I don't have the book, but I did start this thread based on a finnish review.

In the review the writer seemed almost shocked at how quickly and brutally the fights went. He seemed to think the combat system was fast, furious and deadly (and isn't that what many people are missing from RQ2/3?).

He also said that reading the combat system it seemed confusing and non-workable, but in practise it worked fine.

Was there any indication if they were playing the rules correctly? It's quite possible they were going by the tables and not by the text.

If so, you can get some deadly results -- say you put two starting characters against each other, with padded armor and 25% Weapon skill. If it were misplayed that you always roll on defense, the attacker misses + defender misses = hit table entry will hit a lot more than 25% of the time, making the game seem more deadly...

I don't think it was like that, since he wrote about it taking some time for somebody to land a hit, but when they did the results tended to be devastating (with limbs flying, and people at least incapasitated quickly).

He also talks about it being very exciting, which I concider high praise.