Merchant Ship Design (and some economic ramblings)

[Geir]

The main criteria for an A or B starport is related to shipyards, not capacity, except as a floor (low traffic, little point in having a fancy starport unless it's a vanity project, military link or... actually there are quite a few reasons, now that I think about it). Anyway. Plug of the month (it's a new month, so I don't feel bad about plugging the book at that frequency): the World Builder's Handbook includes guidance on traffic volume and port capacity (and shipyard capacity) starting on page 197.

 

[Vormaerin]

Yes, that's what I said. You have to assume that the starport is actually better than listed. Which I am all in favor of. But it makes the shorthand a lot less useful.

We know from the Equipment chapter in Core 2022 that a “Good” standard of living (SOC 7) costs Cr1,500 per month, Cr18,000 per year. Starship pilots make Cr6,000 per month, Cr48,000 per year which equates to a “Very High” standard of living (SOC 10). Gunners and Stewards, both at Cr24,000 per year, can maintain a “High” standard of living (SOC 8). This presumes no time off but traditionally (in CT) a ship’s annual maintenance provided two weeks paid time off per year.

I'm assuming you made a typo with that Cr48000? It should be Cr78000 since there are 13 pay periods in a calendar year. I'd question whether those cost of living numbers actually apply to normal residents rather as opposed to itinerant travellers staying month to month, but that's a different topic. Obviously, any "this is what COL is" number is going to be garbage since IRL we can't even keep COL the same across one country, much less vastly different worlds. But it does give us a point of discussion, so that's helpful!

If you use those numbers, your trip off world even in middle passage round trip is Cr13000. So, even before your actual stay on the world you are going to, you are spending 3/4 of year's "good" cost of living in 2 weeks. If you aren't going to an adjacent planet, then its even more crazy. That does not support huge volumes of passengers. Mongoose does introduce "steerage", but implies it is not normally available and its barely above life support costs for the shipper so more of a "ugh, let's not ship completely empty" option.

Personally, I would abandon the Dumarest model of low berths for something normal people might actually use in order to make travel reasonable. Assuming you want affordable interstellar travel. That isn't a necessity at all.

 

[Vormaerin]

The main criteria for an A or B starport is related to shipyards, not capacity, except as a floor (low traffic, little point in having a fancy starport unless it's a vanity project, military link or... actually there are quite a few reasons, now that I think about it). Anyway. Plug of the month (it's a new month, so I don't feel bad about plugging the book at that frequency): the World Builder's Handbook includes guidance on traffic volume and port capacity (and shipyard capacity) starting on page 197.

But the important point for trade is access to refined fuel without having to spend internal space and additional time refining it yourself, not the shipyard capability. Some of that is going to depend on how long you think ships sit in each system. But a 1000 ton Jump 2 ship needs to refine 200 tons of fuel. That's 10 tons (and 10 power) to do in one day. Presumably the power would be the same power otherwise going to the drives, so that can be assumed to be a wash. But it is still 1% of every ship in your fleet vs getting refined fuel from the port in some fashion.

Edit: Fuel and docking slots. Docking slots are super important...

 

[Vormaerin]

Honestly, I don't even know what the reasoning is for selling unrefined fuel. Who has the infrastructure to ship liquid hydrogen to the starport without having the ability to refine it? And what is the business model there? No sensible person is going to actually jump with unrefined fuel in the engines as a normal behavior. So either most ships have on board refineries, in which case the refined fuel market is pretty crap, or they don't. In which case the unrefined fuel market is pointless because the only customers would be folks set up to skim their own fuel who can't be bothered at the moment.

 

[Nelphine]

The main criteria for an A or B starport is related to shipyards, not capacity, except as a floor (low traffic, little point in having a fancy starport unless it's a vanity project, military link or... actually there are quite a few reasons, now that I think about it). Anyway. Plug of the month (it's a new month, so I don't feel bad about plugging the book at that frequency): the World Builder's Handbook includes guidance on traffic volume and port capacity (and shipyard capacity) starting on page 197.

Except if you have that kind of traffic (100,000 tons per day) it will always be economically justified to develop that shipyard capacity. Soneone will want to do their annual mentanence there, and someone else will want to buy things, and some of those things, will be ships.

 

[Arkathan]

I see it as a Buc-ees. There is enough fuel capacity to service a Walmart sized parking lot. No residential, limited repair capabilities and... it's still a Buc-ees.

 

[Arkathan]

Except if you have that kind of traffic (100,000 tons per day) it will always be economically justified to develop that shipyard capacity. Soneone will want to do their annual mentanence there, and someone else will want to buy things, and some of those things, will be ships.

Well, you've got capable facilities on either end of that set of jumps, so anyone wanting to do maintenance there is akin to the fool that blows by the "last rest stop for 50 miles" sign and then realizes they gotta go.

 

[Condottiere]

I'm thinking Duty Free.

 

[Vormaerin]

The only place you can't do at least basic repairs is Class E (aka effectively no starport). D has pretty limited facilities so just hull repair. But C and up should be able to do any maintenance and repair necessary. Of course "C" is also supposedly a reflection of the quality of the port staff, at least in part. So how good a job they do is iffy.

All numbers in the UWP are pretty waffle-y and full of flex. Except maybe size. But the starport is particularly likely to be a 'snapshot' number in actual use. If you are going to run an adventure on a planet, you'll probably spend a bit of time thinking about what the planet's actually like based on the numbers. But starport quality is far more likely to be a quick route determiner or 'where can we get a certain service that just became necessary', so less likely the referee has thought about it in advance.

On the other hand, what the trade routes are and where commercial freighters are going probably isn't something that is going to be needed at a glance. So I suppose that puts it back in the "Referee has thought about it and tailored the world to his expectations" category.

 

[Nelphine]

Well, you've got capable facilities on either end of that set of jumps, so anyone wanting to do maintenance there is akin to the fool that blows by the "last rest stop for 50 miles" sign and then realizes they gotta go.

Sure, that's why the volume matters. When you're near a 9+ pop world, the volume is obscene, and those fools are a weekly (if not more often) occurence.

And if the starport doesnt have full services (and protections, and shipyard capacity for those protections), pirates show up right away, and then the protections - and shipyard - quickly follow.

 

[Vormaerin]

One of the reasons that I tend to like the Lash model for Traveller, which is not a particularly successful model for oceanic trade, is that it lets you swap out cargo and passenger lighters for tanker and gunboat lighters. So if you have an ineffectual Imperium, the megas could drop off fuel skimming and pewpew lighters in system without permanently burdening the ship with gunners, fuel refineries, and weapon systems.

But that probably only makes sense if you assume there's some systemic reason that ports like Umiikam and Somem don't get upgraded by the expected trade volumes passing through. You'd expect Tukera to badger those port authorities into upgrading, the way Maersk did to Rotterdam when it decided to just start building bigger ships.

 

[Nelphine]

The other reason I dont like it, is that the intervening systems, despite having massive traffic coming through, cant support that traffic. The local populations simply cant offer a market. So the only places the megas need to go, is the main starport. Which then becomes more cost efficient to store the facilities and weaponry in one location, used by all the megas, even compared to LASH.

Basically, these crazy starports are the space equivalent of En Route 'gas stations' on large national highways - which are often larger than the nearest small town that supposedly serves as the 'focus' for the highway at that spot.

 

[Vormaerin]

Yup. A big space station by the gas giant or ice asteroid fields where the ships can jump in relatively close to the station that has its own fuel skimming small craft and escort/security vessels. If someone actually has a cargo destined for the mainworld, just hand it off to some in system craft and move on.

Possibly going so far as to use an airline style crew switching as your freighter only stays in system long enough to refuel and heads out again, if you accept that consecutive jumping is stressful enough to require it.

 

[NOLATrav]

I'm assuming you made a typo with that Cr48000? It should be Cr78000 since there are 13 pay periods in a calendar year.

Yes, my mistake. Brain fart, I guess.

Still, it paints a picture of what SOC 7 (ostensibly “most people” in a polity like the Imperium) need to live a decent life. But then yeah, a single trip to another system seems like a once-in-a-lifetime proposition. Which is in keeping with the traditional fiction of the setting - Travellers are special, bold, daring, etc etc.

Personally I favor a darker, proto-Imperium so the logic or lack thereof in commerce, travel and port status can often be attributed to the local Noble or the Noble heading up this leg of the Megacorp transit line. There are Imperial standards, of course! And I can assure you we are doing our best to uphold them! Now, about those berthing fees…

 

[Condottiere]

Cost of living would only apply if you have to spend it.

A technological level eight mobile communications device is one hundred fifty starbux, or about three quarters of a kilobux, which seems about right for a upper midrange Samsung.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Honestly, I don't even know what the reasoning is for selling unrefined fuel. Who has the infrastructure to ship liquid hydrogen to the starport without having the ability to refine it? And what is the business model there? No sensible person is going to actually jump with unrefined fuel in the engines as a normal behavior. So either most ships have on board refineries, in which case the refined fuel market is pretty crap, or they don't.

The chosen price of Cr100 for unrefined and Cr500 for refined means the purifier is the most profitable piece of machinery onboard, and most ships will buy unrefined. Refined fuel is a luxury.

Of course the starport can refine fuel, it's just that the price difference is too great when purifiers are fairly small and cheap.

Take a simplistic J-2 freighter (HG2017), potentially very profitable:
1000 Dt, J-2, 625 Dt payload, can make kCr 450 per jump (39% return on investment)




Remove the purifier, and calculate with refined fuel:
Potential profit is lowered to kCr 375 per jump (32% return on investment)

 

[Vormaerin]

Yes, if someone sells unrefined fuel. Why are the starports giving those profits to the traders? It is just as cheap for the starport to refine the fuel and just not sell unrefined fuel. Why is it legal to crash your starship into the ocean and murderize a bunch of helpless fishies?

I mean, I know how Traveller is set up. But I think that is more of the "wierd things done so players flitting around the back of beyond aren't screwed", not 'things that make sense in general'.

 

[Galadrion]

Cost of living would only apply if you have to spend it.

A technological level eight mobile communications device is one hundred fifty starbux, or about three quarters of a kilobux, which seems about right for a upper midrange Samsung.

??? By my math, one hundred fifty is not three-quarters of one thousand...

 

[Vormaerin]

??? By my math, one hundred fifty is not three-quarters of one thousand...

Maybe a starbucks coffee is $5 where he is? So 150 starbucks would be about $750?

 

[Condottiere]

Seventies to current times is about five times inflation.

If you want the foldable model, that would be a tad under two hundred fifty.