[Matt/Legal] Forevens in different timelines?

[EDG]

So, we can do Foreven sectors set in different times. And the Hells Creek crowd are planning on setting their Foreven in 1116 and 1126. And the Foreven doc states that one can do that.

But what if one wanted to set Foreven in (or after) 1200? This is what is said in the doc:

For example, you can produce material that describes what the Zhodani are doing within the Foreven Sector, but you cannot describe changes to the Zhodani central government.

Would I be right in assuming that what is actually meant here is that you can't change anything outside of the Foreven Sector relative to any existing canon for that era? Because (appropriately enough, given the example) the Zho government has already collapsed by 1200 because of events already described in Traveller:TNE (which is part of the OTU canon).

So presumably, one can refer to that as having happened outside a 1200-era Foreven sector without violating what is said in the agreement, right?

More topically, presumably the Hells Creekers can refer to the Fifth Frontier War as having happened elsewhere too in their post-1105 settings. And they could even refer to the war's effects on specific planets outside of Foreven so long as it didn't contradict existing OTU canon, right? It seems the point of that clause in the Foreven doc is to prevent people from changing OTU canon outside the sector, but there's no reason to prevent them from referring to it.

 

[Zowy]

Allso does this apply to MGT cannon or cannon from all editions?

 

[Anonymous]

Anything after 1105'ish would therefore be from an older version of Traveller, starting from CT's 1106-1111 references and then later dates from MT & TNE.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Sounds like an easy solution would be to mention that the Zho Government collapsed in Foreven.

 

[Anonymous]

What happens in Foreven is not the topic in question its what you can reference outside of the Sector and how post 1105 dates are to be used - by this I mean what parts of the various Traveller materials are OK to be used ?

 

[EDG]

Allso does this apply to MGT cannon or cannon from all editions?

Yeah. MGT is currently blank on say, the 1200 era, or even the "million years in the future" era. It seems daft to say that nothing outside the Foreven sector has changed even though the sector may be set a million years from now (which is undefined even in canon). Of course everything else outside it would have changed by then, but if one can't provide any context for changes inside Foreven as a result of the changes outside then that basically strangles the creativity of authors.

And if canon already exists for future (or past) eras then it makes sense to me that one can at least refer to things that are happening or happened outside Foreven in those eras as described in that canon - one just can't change what happens outside Foreven.

 

[kristof65]

You'e basically asking if you could say something like this in a Foreven product, right?

After the collapse of the Zhodani Empire (see Traveller: The New Era Book X for details), the Zhodani forces remaining in Foreven did...

It would make sense that the license would allow that, however, legal contracts and common sense don't always go hand in hand.

 

[EDG]

Partly, yes.

But I'm also curious about what to do in eras that are way beyond or before ones that have described in canon.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I was also thinking about a Foreven Pocket Empire that was settled about the same time as the Five Sisters. The First Rebellion would have an impact on that PE.

Knowing if I can reference that part of the history, or the Virus would be nice to know.

I was going on the assumption that I could use the OTU timeline through 1248 or so, since that was all published, licensed material, but now I am wondering what I can do.

Help Matt!

 

[Anonymous]

Im in the same boat as being a tad confused.

My original feeling was that Foreven and FUP were seperate and also decided if something could be commerical.

Now I just dont know how it all works.

Confused

 

[EDG]

TBH it all seems over-complicated to me. Why not just say that anyone can publish Charted Space material set anything anywhere and at any time in the Imperium, but to do so they have to put a honking great logo somewhere saying "THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL TRAVELLER UNIVERSE CANON"?

If it's fine to do that under the FUP and not charge money for it, why should it be any different if one does charge money for it? As long as it's clear that it's not "official" then where's the issue?

 

[Anonymous]

Well that would work upto a point and that being licensed materials.
If anything from GDW or Mongoose's Traveller OTU is OK then that works but add in the various licensed products and your dealing with other peoples copyright.

 

[kristof65]

TBH it all seems over-complicated to me. Why not just say that anyone can publish Charted Space material set anything anywhere and at any time in the Imperium, but to do so they have to put a honking great logo somewhere saying "THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL TRAVELLER UNIVERSE CANON"?

If it's fine to do that under the FUP and not charge money for it, why should it be any different if one does charge money for it? As long as it's clear that it's not "official" then where's the issue?

That is one of the reasons why I'm staying away from OTU material, and developing for my own ATU.

 

[EDG]

If anything from GDW or Mongoose's Traveller OTU is OK then that works but add in the various licensed products and your dealing with other peoples copyright.

Doesn't the FUP seem to imply that any previous version of Traveller is fair game for th FUP, or did they clarify that to exclude SJG, T20 and Avenger stuff? I remember pointing out that it seemed rather presumptuous to assume that SJG, QLI and Avenger would be OK with that.

 

[Anonymous]

I really dont know to be fair, and yes its a very important question that needs a direct answer to it.

 

[Sylvre Phire]

So, we can do Foreven sectors set in different times. And the Hells Creek crowd are planning on setting their Foreven in 1116 and 1126. And the Foreven doc states that one can do that.

But what if one wanted to set Foreven in (or after) 1200? This is what is said in the doc:

For example, you can produce material that describes what the Zhodani are doing within the Foreven Sector, but you cannot describe changes to the Zhodani central government.

Would I be right in assuming that what is actually meant here is that you can't change anything outside of the Foreven Sector relative to any existing canon for that era? Because (appropriately enough, given the example) the Zho government has already collapsed by 1200 because of events already described in Traveller:TNE (which is part of the OTU canon).

So presumably, one can refer to that as having happened outside a 1200-era Foreven sector without violating what is said in the agreement, right?

More topically, presumably the Hells Creekers can refer to the Fifth Frontier War as having happened elsewhere too in their post-1105 settings. And they could even refer to the war's effects on specific planets outside of Foreven so long as it didn't contradict existing OTU canon, right? It seems the point of that clause in the Foreven doc is to prevent people from changing OTU canon outside the sector, but there's no reason to prevent them from referring to it.

Hey folks, Dale here at the Sanitarium.

I just downloaded the new version of the developer's pack and came across this in the Read Me document:

What can I do?
There are three core documents to the Traveller Developer’s Pack, each designed to handle third party projects in a certain way. However, it is fairly simple to see which you need to adhere to, by following this simple guide;

I want to produce material based on older and out of print versions of Traveller, and publish them on a non-commercial basis.

Consult the Fair Use Policy document.

I want to produce and publish my own original material using the current Traveller rules – both commercially and non-commercially.

Consult the Traveller Logo Licence.

I want to produce and publish material based on the Original Traveller Universe, including the Imperial Scout Service, Zhodani, the Third Imperium, and everything else! I haven’t decided whether to use an older version of Traveller, or the current one.

Consult the Foreven Free Sector Logo Licence.

The campaign my group is currently playing is set in the Original Traveller Universe – but the Fair Use Policy and Logo Licences do not cover what I want to do! Does this mean I can’t write new material for use in my own gaming group???

Of course not! What you get up to within your own gaming group has nothing to do with us – we wish you the very best of luck with whatever games you have going! The Fair Use Policy and Logo Licences are only required if you intend to make your material available to the general public.

Note that ‘to publish’ covers not only printed books, but also documents such as those in Word or PDF formats, and web sites. Whether you are charging money for these items or giving them away for free makes no difference – if it is intended for the general public, it is still publishing!

What Can’t I do?
The following is not permitted under the Traveller Developer’s Pack – if you wish to attempt one of these projects, you should contact Mongoose Publishing for further information at msprange@mongoosepublishing.com. This is not a comprehensive list, and you should get in contact if you want to do anything that is not covered by the Fair Use Policy or Logo Licences.

Publish material for older and out of print versions of Traveller, and release them commercially.
Publish software based on the current edition of Traveller.
Publish Original Traveller Universe material beyond the confines of the Fair Use Policy or Foreven Free Sector Logo Licence.

I hope that clears some of the confusion up for you all.

By the way, for those of you still waiting, the new version of the Developer's Pack now includes the Mercenary SRD. *ducks and covers before the impending stampede* :lol:

Pax et bonum,

Dale Meier
Creative Director
Hell Creen Sanitarium
Omaha, NE

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Actually, that may indeed answer my question.

If it is OTU (any era) and you want money, then it is covered by the Foreven License.

So, a 1248 Foreven is allowed, referencing the Rebellion, Virus and the Empress Wave and the Black Imperium.

A 997 Foreven is allowed, referencing the Solomani Rebellion.

A circa 600 Foreven is allowed, referencing the Barracks Emperors.

Heck, a -3000 Foreven is allowed, referencing the Ramshackle Empire and the collapse of the First (and Second) Imperiums.

So, by implication.... a -300,000 Foreven is allowed detailing the civilization of the Ancients... :shock:

As long as you keep it in Foreven, you can reference what is going on around it but you cannot CHANGE what is going on around it.

So, no giant killer space ducks from within the Avalar Consolate invading the Spinward Marches! But, the Ihatei fleets swarming up during the Rebellion can be referenced.

Cool.

 

[dmccoy1693]

TBH it all seems over-complicated to me. Why not just say that anyone can publish Charted Space material set anything anywhere and at any time in the Imperium, but to do so they have to put a honking great logo somewhere saying "THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL TRAVELLER UNIVERSE CANON"?

If it's fine to do that under the FUP and not charge money for it, why should it be any different if one does charge money for it? As long as it's clear that it's not "official" then where's the issue?

You guys are making this way to overcomplicated. Let me simplify this for you.

1) Why can't you publish anything you want about the OTU, because you didn't pay for the license to do so. Mongoose paid Miller to do so. Mongoose and Miller get to make the rules.

2) To your basic question: If you want to sell a sector book like Spinward Marches but for Foreven (regardless of time period), you cannot include a history of the entire universe.

If you want to detail the collapse of the Zho government, the only way you can is if you talk about how it relates to Foreven. You can talk about how Foreven is different because there is a wealth of Zho tech in the sector and no one is paying anyone to keep it out of the hands of pirates. You can talk about some former government official that now resides in Foreven and is setting up his own empire. They're all perfectly well and good.

But you cannot say something in the OTU happened outside of Foreven unless Mongoose says it first. And even then it has to be in the context of how it applies to Foreven. The license spells that out very clearly.

 

[Anonymous]

Just a tad over the top there me thinks.

The questions that have been asked are good points that needed answers to, if they had not got those answers then who knows people may not be thinking anymore about making things for Traveller Foreven Sector.

Best advice here is if in doubt ask the bossman in this case Matt.

 

[Anonymous]

Making up history but not having it included in yout Foreven product is OK if & when that time peroid is within the framework of the setting.

OK stupid example, my setting is set 10,000,000 years before the Third Imperium and so before any OTU things could be referenced (like say hmmm ancients), its pretty clear that I need to make background history/fluff up that doesnt exist already and so big text dump in my product.

Rog.