MarcusIII
Banded Mongoose
I always go by vehicle stat blocks not any other sourceBe aware that the listed 'Shipping Tonnage' for vehicles already doubles the number of dTons that a vehicle takes up; adding more on top is not needed.
I always go by vehicle stat blocks not any other sourceBe aware that the listed 'Shipping Tonnage' for vehicles already doubles the number of dTons that a vehicle takes up; adding more on top is not needed.
That is what I am talking about. Vehicle Handbook Update, page 95:I always go by vehicle stat blocks not any other source
but it lists the 'Shipping Tonnage' as 4 dTons --
Because it is explicitly defined (well, as much as anything is 'explicitly defined') that way? 'Shipping Tonnage' is the amount of space it takes up aboard a (space)ship.The image says 4 TONS. Why would you assume that is dTons?
If it was weight, it would never change.Because it is explicitly defined (well, as much as anything is 'explicitly defined') that way? 'Shipping Tonnage' is the amount of space it takes up aboard a (space)ship.
What else would it be?
It could just be the tons that it masses for shipment ON WORLD. Do you think that everything being shipped around a planet would have shipping weights in dTons? Tons seems to me to indicate just that - tons, as dTons means a specified volume.Because it is explicitly defined (well, as much as anything is 'explicitly defined') that way? 'Shipping Tonnage' is the amount of space it takes up aboard a (space)ship.
What else would it be?
Here is a screen cap from the book linking the tonnage to shipping size rather than weight.It could just be the tons that it masses for shipment ON WORLD. Do you think that everything being shipped around a planet would have shipping weights in dTons? Tons seems to me to indicate just that - tons, as dTons means a specified volume.
Shipping size, not shipping weight. Clearly stated. Whatever was, this is what is.A 4 TON item fits in just about any cargo hold as there would be few less than 1dTon and that fits 4 TONS quite nicely.
Check back into the early days of Traveller before Mongoose introduced dTons and the air/raft had the same shipping TONS as today. The air/raft didn't get bigger the ships did and the ship measurement changed to dTons and the air/raft was never changed.
/* sigh /* Mongoose did not invent the Displacement Ton; it goes back to (at least) the 1981 printing of High Guard under Game Designers Workshop. And if you want to fit an Air/Raft into a single dTon then you are going to need to ignore or revise numerous canon Mongoose designs of ships that carry Air/Rafts. Or, better yet, ask Gier -- the fellow who is currently writing the 'Vehicle Handbook Update' to replace the last 'Vehicle Handbook Update'.A 4 TON item fits in just about any cargo hold as there would be few less than 1dTon and that fits 4 TONS quite nicely.
Check back into the early days of Traveller before Mongoose introduced dTons and the air/raft had the same shipping TONS as today. The air/raft didn't get bigger the ships did and the ship measurement changed to dTons and the air/raft was never changed.
I don't pay attention to shipping tonnage as that isn't the vehicle volumeThat is what I am talking about. Vehicle Handbook Update, page 95:
This is a eight Vehicle 'Space' light grav vehicle. 4 Vehicle 'Spaces' = 1 dTon; but it lists the 'Shipping Tonnage' as 4 dTons -- so 100% 'extra' space is already allocated, that is exactly what a Full Hangar requires. There is no need to add extra space.
/* sigh /* Mongoose did not invent the Displacement Ton; it goes back to (at least) the 1981 printing of High Guard under Game Designers Workshop. And if you want to fit an Air/Raft into a single dTon then you are going to need to ignore or revise numerous canon Mongoose designs of ships that carry Air/Rafts.
But it is. See just above your post.I don't pay attention to shipping tonnage as that isn't the vehicle volume
And that rule is crap; and ought to be changed. It creates more problems than it solves /* gestures at conversation here so far /* and it is part of the reason vehicle and robot systems do not scale to each other (or to ships) in any rational manner.Are people considering that things have internal and external dimensions?
Shipping tonnage has to take into account overall length, height and width. Unless the vehicle is literally a rectilinear box there is going to be waste space in the vehicle bay - this is most apparent with smaller vehicles that have heights which are substantially lower than the ceiling.
We went through this much earlier, but an air/raft that is 2.5m x 4m is going to need a space that's at least 2 x 3 deck squares. It won't matter that it has more than a metre of clearance to the ceiling... the whole of ship design is going to have that as a matter of course in most cases.
But the internal dimensions expressed in terms of spaces will be smaller than the outside dimensions, unless you're building a TARDIS.
The rule is that two vehicle spaces take up one shipping ton/dTon. That does NOT mean a vehicle space is half a dton in volume, but that it is no more than half a dton in volume. Usually, it would be a bit less because of internal and external dimensions.