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Mars and Gettysburg
- Thread starter bolive
- Start date
Yes, it can be used offensively (and the Hydrans will do this extensively!)
it works just like a regular phaser, with the appropriate traits. Oh and it's not different - it just gets a lot of dice.
My group will almost certainly play that you can use the 4 shots any time you like (save some for defensive, or fire the lot offensively - up to you..)
Not sure what the official ruling on the spreading of weapon dice is now.
it works just like a regular phaser, with the appropriate traits. Oh and it's not different - it just gets a lot of dice.
My group will almost certainly play that you can use the 4 shots any time you like (save some for defensive, or fire the lot offensively - up to you..)
Not sure what the official ruling on the spreading of weapon dice is now.
Yes you can, in that mode they are effectively a 4AD Ph3 system and nothing else. The compression of the turn has taken away the multiple fire opportunity of the PhG. To be honest in attack thats not a problem, I tend to fire it as a big burst like that.
However, the current expression does make it just 4 phaser 3s without any other significant change - and its not quite a Phaser G to me -although a pretty simple implementation of the system.
Thinking on the fly being able to use the AD both offensively and defensively (1 choice per AD, but you could do 2 defensively, then fire one offensively and another 1 defensively later etc etc etc), would make it feel more like a Phaser G - but there's more book-keeping. Allowing Phaser G fire to be separated from other defensive fire and be resolved AD by AD would take more time, and focus on its defensive capacity, but give you the multiple fire options of PhGs (and that would have been quite a nice way of adding Aegis to the game, but the free IDF is rather thematic). Not sure how much either would give benefit to the game and cost in points terms - but it would make the PhG feel more PhGish.
However, the current expression does make it just 4 phaser 3s without any other significant change - and its not quite a Phaser G to me -although a pretty simple implementation of the system.
Thinking on the fly being able to use the AD both offensively and defensively (1 choice per AD, but you could do 2 defensively, then fire one offensively and another 1 defensively later etc etc etc), would make it feel more like a Phaser G - but there's more book-keeping. Allowing Phaser G fire to be separated from other defensive fire and be resolved AD by AD would take more time, and focus on its defensive capacity, but give you the multiple fire options of PhGs (and that would have been quite a nice way of adding Aegis to the game, but the free IDF is rather thematic). Not sure how much either would give benefit to the game and cost in points terms - but it would make the PhG feel more PhGish.
Zarathustra Suicune
Mongoose
Could someone explain to me about the X generation/technology, and why being bigger means they couldn't be refitted with the it? Bigger size would mean it would take longer to refit, but surly they would maximise it's effectiveness/be the ships the fleets would want to upgrade rather then the smaller ones?
You have to remembe, SFB was designed by a licensed engineer and he wanted it to have a semi-realistic background.Zarathustra Suicune said:Could someone explain to me about the X generation/technology, and why being bigger means they couldn't be refitted with the it? Bigger size would mean it would take longer to refit, but surly they would maximise it's effectiveness/be the ships the fleets would want to upgrade rather then the smaller ones?
There is also the strategic level game (Federation and Empire) to consider.
The larger ships take proportionally longer to build. Battlecruisers take longer than Heavy Cruisers. Dreadnoughts take longer than Battlecruisers. and Battleships take even longer.
This means that an empire can pump out more heavy cruisers per year than battlecruisers, and only one dreadnought a year.
And battleships... in the "real" history of the game, only the Klingons built a battleship and it took years to complete. And that's time and resources that could have produced how many cruisers?
Then there were the variants. Dreadnoughts were often built/converted to heavy carriers and/or space control ships. These variants (and their attrition units) were needed in the overall war effort [And if you don't believe me, tell an F&E player that he cant have any fighters!] Whereas heavy cruisers were made by the bucket-load - comparatively speaking.
In addition, the background material states that the larger ships were pushing the envelope for structural integrity. Adding in the more efficient engines / over-powered weapons / and enhanced coombat systems would overload the design parameters, making for a ship that was effectively less robust than the non-X type.
So you end up with more of the smaller, easier/faster to build CX class ships that actually have more firepower/defensive capabilities than some of the larger dreadnoughts. Is it 100% logical, probably not - but that's the way the game was designed over 30 years ago.
The technology curve in the SFU is such that, every time the base tech level advances into a new era, many of the last generation's designs end up being left behind.
By and large, the SFU follows an adapted version of GURPS' Tech Level chart, with adjustments added in specifically to fit this setting. The "modern" era in the Alpha Octant is listed as Tech Level 12, and covers the ships currently in A Call to Arms: Star Fleet.
The era of faster-than-light travel began for the planet Earth in Y1, with Zefram Cochrane's first warp flight (and the subsequent First Contact with the Vulcans). For the next several decades, Earth ships could travel using fusion-powered non-tactical warp drives only. Those allow a ship to go around nine parsecs a day from one part of space to another, but must slow to sublight speeds in order to engage in ship-to-ship combat. And when they were so engaged, they fought using primitive lasers and atomic missiles. This era is set at Tech Level 9, the non-tactical warp or Q-era. (These older engines live on as impulse drives on modern starships, so a ship which is forced to drop its warp nacelles can try to limp home using non-tactical warp.)
The onset of antimatter-powered tactical warp drive came for the Federation in Y62, when a Terran light cruiser was used as a testbed for the new technology. (That same cruiser hull would eventually evolve into the modern-day Texas-class CL.) The first warp-refitted ships were faster on the strategic map, and were able to fight at (low) warp speeds in combat. They were also able to support the development of new "warp-class" weapons, such as phasers and photon torpedoes. (In SFB, you have to use warp power to arm a photon, be it from the warp engines, or from auxiliary warp reactors fitted to bases or certain types of ships.) This is the Tech Level 10 era; otherwise known as the warp-refitted or W-era. Most of the ships of this period are older TL 9 hulls refitted with the new warp drives, and with their old "sublight" weapons stripped out and replaced with phasers and suchlike.
In Y79, the first ships built from the keel up to incorporate tactical warp drive entered service, starting with the Republic-class early cruiser; the first ship built with the classic saucer-and-nacelle pattern, designed from the outset to serve as part of a unified Star Fleet (as opposed to the separate planetary navies the W-era hulls had first served in). This is Tech Level 11, the early warp or Y-era. In some cases, the older W-era hulls could be upgraded to the new tech level; the Terran WCL got a new set of engines, to turn it into the YCL. However, some other ships were simply incapable of going any farther than they already had. One example is the old warp-refitted Terran frigate, which could not be made to go any further than it had already been. Others may or may not have been upgradable from an engineering perspective, but were economically (or politically) unfeasible in the new era.
Then, with the onset of ships like the Constitution-class heavy cruiser (and the Texas-class light cruiser) in the Y120s, we make the jump to TL12. In the modern era, the earlier ships of the Star Fleet ran into the same problem which had befallen the old Terran frigate in the last jump forward; the likes of the Republic-class YCA simply could not adopt the new and modern warp drives. (There was a different "R"-series class of transitional cruisers, the Republic, Ramilles, and Reshadjie, which did end up serving as "modern" CAs; but this Republic and the earlier Republic are most likely different ships.) Some of the Y-era Star Fleet ships ended up in the various National Guards (the modern-day successors to the old planetary fleets), but others ended up either as floating museums or as fodder for the breakers.
The onset of first-generation X-technology (Tech Level 13) in the early Y180s follows this trend. While the possibilities of X-tech transform the way in which each Alpha Octant empire goes about its business, there are two key limitations which define the ships of this new era. On the one hand, the X1-ships are all upgrades of older hulls, attempting to integrate technologies that none of the original designers had ever envisioned being implemented into these designs. This led to a few discoveries which set X1-ships along a certain design trajectory; you couldn't upgrade a dreadnought to full X-tech, you can't put X-tech into a gunboat, you had to work out how to run X-ships alongside non-X ships, and so on. On the other hand, you need a whole new set of resources and raw elements needed to make X-tech work, and a whole new set of industries in order to process and refine them. This meant that no empire had the means of converting their fleets to X-tech overnight; all the money in the Federation wouldn't help if it couldn't be channeled into a logistical structure capable of spending it.
(In Federation and Empire, you need to raise and spend XTPs, which are distinct from standard EPs, in order to build and maintain your advanced technology units.)
If you want to see what the true application of X-tech will be, you'll have to wait for Tech Level 15, the X2-era, starting in Y205. (Tech Level 14 is ear-marked for some exotic technology types out in the SFU, and is skipped by the Federation.) That is when the first ships built from the keel up to make the most of advanced technology will enter service. However, we will have to wait until the long-awaited SFB Module X2 is committed to print before those details come to light; and no-one can say when ADB will manage to get that one up and running...
So, to put a long story short, each jump from one technology level to another has its issues; and in the case of the Gettsyburg and Kirov/Bismarck/New Jersey, the ins and outs of first-generation X-tech are such that one class can go on to grander things as the Vincennes-class CX, while the other finds itself on the wrong side of the TL 12-to-13 tech divide.
By and large, the SFU follows an adapted version of GURPS' Tech Level chart, with adjustments added in specifically to fit this setting. The "modern" era in the Alpha Octant is listed as Tech Level 12, and covers the ships currently in A Call to Arms: Star Fleet.
The era of faster-than-light travel began for the planet Earth in Y1, with Zefram Cochrane's first warp flight (and the subsequent First Contact with the Vulcans). For the next several decades, Earth ships could travel using fusion-powered non-tactical warp drives only. Those allow a ship to go around nine parsecs a day from one part of space to another, but must slow to sublight speeds in order to engage in ship-to-ship combat. And when they were so engaged, they fought using primitive lasers and atomic missiles. This era is set at Tech Level 9, the non-tactical warp or Q-era. (These older engines live on as impulse drives on modern starships, so a ship which is forced to drop its warp nacelles can try to limp home using non-tactical warp.)
The onset of antimatter-powered tactical warp drive came for the Federation in Y62, when a Terran light cruiser was used as a testbed for the new technology. (That same cruiser hull would eventually evolve into the modern-day Texas-class CL.) The first warp-refitted ships were faster on the strategic map, and were able to fight at (low) warp speeds in combat. They were also able to support the development of new "warp-class" weapons, such as phasers and photon torpedoes. (In SFB, you have to use warp power to arm a photon, be it from the warp engines, or from auxiliary warp reactors fitted to bases or certain types of ships.) This is the Tech Level 10 era; otherwise known as the warp-refitted or W-era. Most of the ships of this period are older TL 9 hulls refitted with the new warp drives, and with their old "sublight" weapons stripped out and replaced with phasers and suchlike.
In Y79, the first ships built from the keel up to incorporate tactical warp drive entered service, starting with the Republic-class early cruiser; the first ship built with the classic saucer-and-nacelle pattern, designed from the outset to serve as part of a unified Star Fleet (as opposed to the separate planetary navies the W-era hulls had first served in). This is Tech Level 11, the early warp or Y-era. In some cases, the older W-era hulls could be upgraded to the new tech level; the Terran WCL got a new set of engines, to turn it into the YCL. However, some other ships were simply incapable of going any farther than they already had. One example is the old warp-refitted Terran frigate, which could not be made to go any further than it had already been. Others may or may not have been upgradable from an engineering perspective, but were economically (or politically) unfeasible in the new era.
Then, with the onset of ships like the Constitution-class heavy cruiser (and the Texas-class light cruiser) in the Y120s, we make the jump to TL12. In the modern era, the earlier ships of the Star Fleet ran into the same problem which had befallen the old Terran frigate in the last jump forward; the likes of the Republic-class YCA simply could not adopt the new and modern warp drives. (There was a different "R"-series class of transitional cruisers, the Republic, Ramilles, and Reshadjie, which did end up serving as "modern" CAs; but this Republic and the earlier Republic are most likely different ships.) Some of the Y-era Star Fleet ships ended up in the various National Guards (the modern-day successors to the old planetary fleets), but others ended up either as floating museums or as fodder for the breakers.
The onset of first-generation X-technology (Tech Level 13) in the early Y180s follows this trend. While the possibilities of X-tech transform the way in which each Alpha Octant empire goes about its business, there are two key limitations which define the ships of this new era. On the one hand, the X1-ships are all upgrades of older hulls, attempting to integrate technologies that none of the original designers had ever envisioned being implemented into these designs. This led to a few discoveries which set X1-ships along a certain design trajectory; you couldn't upgrade a dreadnought to full X-tech, you can't put X-tech into a gunboat, you had to work out how to run X-ships alongside non-X ships, and so on. On the other hand, you need a whole new set of resources and raw elements needed to make X-tech work, and a whole new set of industries in order to process and refine them. This meant that no empire had the means of converting their fleets to X-tech overnight; all the money in the Federation wouldn't help if it couldn't be channeled into a logistical structure capable of spending it.
(In Federation and Empire, you need to raise and spend XTPs, which are distinct from standard EPs, in order to build and maintain your advanced technology units.)
If you want to see what the true application of X-tech will be, you'll have to wait for Tech Level 15, the X2-era, starting in Y205. (Tech Level 14 is ear-marked for some exotic technology types out in the SFU, and is skipped by the Federation.) That is when the first ships built from the keel up to make the most of advanced technology will enter service. However, we will have to wait until the long-awaited SFB Module X2 is committed to print before those details come to light; and no-one can say when ADB will manage to get that one up and running...
So, to put a long story short, each jump from one technology level to another has its issues; and in the case of the Gettsyburg and Kirov/Bismarck/New Jersey, the ins and outs of first-generation X-tech are such that one class can go on to grander things as the Vincennes-class CX, while the other finds itself on the wrong side of the TL 12-to-13 tech divide.
Greg Smith said:scoutdad said:Remember though, theserules are still very much play test rules. Hopefully the final version will be included in ACTASF2... and hopefully it will include the ability to use ADDs in defense of other ships as well. OInly time will tell.
It does seem like the Plasma escorts gained lots of plasma-D's in order to use them as ADD in an escort capacity. Which of course they can't do...
Well "historically", those plasma-Ds saw frequent use against fighters. The Roms used fighters long before the Gorns did, and those Plasma-Ds certainly do well against Fed (or their drones) or Tholian fighters.
But yeah, right now, those extra Plasma-Ds on the Gorns seem rather un-handy, until fighters are introduced. I'd rather have the plasma-F they replaced.
billclo said:Greg Smith said:scoutdad said:Remember though, theserules are still very much play test rules. Hopefully the final version will be included in ACTASF2... and hopefully it will include the ability to use ADDs in defense of other ships as well. OInly time will tell.
It does seem like the Plasma escorts gained lots of plasma-D's in order to use them as ADD in an escort capacity. Which of course they can't do...
Well "historically", those plasma-Ds saw frequent use against fighters. The Roms used fighters long before the Gorns did, and those Plasma-Ds certainly do well against Fed (or their drones) or Tholian fighters.
But yeah, right now, those extra Plasma-Ds on the Gorns seem rather un-handy, until fighters are introduced. I'd rather have the plasma-F they replaced.
Umm... Nothing here is stopping you from firing your single Plasma-D shot at a drone. It would be the same effect as a Drone used to kill a Drone in Defencive Fire. Yes it is only one Drone killed per launcher that way but, it is one more Drone in addition to your bearing Phasers.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Rambler said:Umm... Nothing here is stopping you from firing your single Plasma-D shot at a drone. It would be the same effect as a Drone used to kill a Drone in Defencive Fire. Yes it is only one Drone killed per launcher that way but, it is one more Drone in addition to your bearing Phasers.
You can't in ACTA.
Zarathustra Suicune
Mongoose
So how do people think the Gettysburg fares against the Kirov and it's variants, especially the New Jearsy? Whilst in my 1500pts fleet the pts work out nicely as taking a gettysburg over another Bismark/kirov means that by swapping an old light cruiser for it' esort version I can then swap a Constitution for a Lexington, but generally, those extra 10pts gets a couple of nice things, and I can see the new Jearsey becoming very common.
Greg Smith said:Rambler said:Umm... Nothing here is stopping you from firing your single Plasma-D shot at a drone. It would be the same effect as a Drone used to kill a Drone in Defencive Fire. Yes it is only one Drone killed per launcher that way but, it is one more Drone in addition to your bearing Phasers.
You can't in ACTA.
Ships with the Escort Trait can.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
The Gettysburg fits well between the Connie command variant and the Kirov.
The New Jersey is better than the Gettysburg - more damage, more shields, more photons, but cheaper.
The New Jersey is better than the Gettysburg - more damage, more shields, more photons, but cheaper.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Rambler said:Greg Smith said:Rambler said:Umm... Nothing here is stopping you from firing your single Plasma-D shot at a drone. It would be the same effect as a Drone used to kill a Drone in Defencive Fire. Yes it is only one Drone killed per launcher that way but, it is one more Drone in addition to your bearing Phasers.
You can't in ACTA.
Ships with the Escort Trait can.
The Escort Trait allows ships to contribute Plasma D to the defensive fire of a friendly ship. But it does not let it shoot drones down.
In fact, why does the Escort trait allow the use of Plasma D for defensive fire, when plasma D can't be used for defensive fire (only as Anti-Drone)?
Or am I missing something?
Greg Smith said:In fact, why does the Escort trait allow the use of Plasma D for defensive fire, when plasma D can't be used for defensive fire (only as Anti-Drone)?
Or am I missing something?
You aren't - the Update is.
Plasma Ds hitting drones should be possible per SFU and I think that view has snuck through here. It is implicit that 1AD plasma shoots defensively at drones AD by AD as per drone defensive fire when such systems are suddenly permitted to be 'used in defensive fire' but the author of that section has neglected to include an actual explicit rule for this novel feature.
That or plasma-D got in that sentence by mistake
Greg Smith
Mongoose
That's what I thought. Thanks.
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