Low Berth travel is for the condemned only?

[Matt Wilson]

How do you assume all this EXTREMELY expensive care without paying for it?

This is the British version of Traveller, so it's all part of the National Health.

 

[sideranautae]

How do you assume all this EXTREMELY expensive care without paying for it?

This is the British version of Traveller, so it's all part of the National Health.

So that means that the chance of death is even higher than listed. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Not necessarily, but at least you'll be seen by the doc and not just the coroner...

 

[sideranautae]

Not necessarily, but at least you'll be seen by the doc and not just the coroner...

But in which order? [I unfortunately had staff that were inflicted with the NIH when I had our UK offices under my jurisdiction]

 

[Reynard]

Seriously folks, this is a Mongoose Traveller forum, not other former editions except marginally Classic which Mongoose borrows from. It's not a little confusing when people here make discussion or argument about MgT issues with direct references to other editions whose game mechanics are different at the least. I use such old references here to point out canon similarities of a topic between editions not argue how a rule in MgT works by quoting the game mechanic in MT or THE. Make you points citing Mongoose rules.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Liability insurance would insist on a biological being on the bridge supervising the ship operation(s), automated or otherwise.

2. No unauthorized personnel on the bridge or near critical machinery.

3. You know who's really interested in state of the art low berths? Solomani naval personnel, and the Solomani Navy who would have a vested interest in minimum fatalities for long term deep freezing.

 

[Condottiere]

Luriani make extensive use of low berths for travel and medical purposes. Their natural ability to slow their metabolism allows them to use these without any risk.

 

[exedore6]

Not sure where exactly I weigh in on this, aside from it should be possible to safely use low berths (so the navy doesn't lose its investments in crew), and it should be dangerous as well.

I want to point out that from a profitability standpoint, if you rip out your low berths and convert it into cargo space, your life support costs go down, and you have more room for freight, it ends up a wash for a Stock Type-A. (Not to mention you'll be able to take bigger shipments, and won't need to ever pay out the low lottery)

So, I think the questions are
1. Is it possible to have a good odds if your careful without house rules?
2. Why would free traders have so any low berths?

For #1 - Assuming an Average Crewman, with an Average MD (because it's a ship of the line)
8+
+2 DM for Medic 2
+2 DM for taking time twice (1d6 hours) (page 50 TMB)
+1 DM for well maintained tools (which I think is a minimum for anything short of pressing the 'thaw' button) - the guy with the medikit and hand computer would probably have more)

The minimum roll is 2, which makes 7, which qualifies as marginal failure (I'd read as non-fatal injury)

Everyone lives. Now that's a slow wake up, but it's possible. In my game, I'd allow a chained task for prepping the person to further improve the odds (and I imagine the navy does this with their guys)

I'd imagine the procedure for prepping a frozen watch goes like this -
1. Physicals for all crew members
2. 1d6 hours of preparation with an MD
3. Average medical check for insertion. 4+
4. Evaluate the status of all troopcicles.
5. Carefully thaw any marginal freezes, those troops represent a large training investment. (anyone who's margin of success doesn't give a +1DM for the task chain, possibly even the +2 allowing the thaw process to be hasty and safe (since a frozen watch can be prepped in 36 minutes)
6. Loading aboard the vessel.

I don't think I've house ruled anything (say so if I have), so I think it can be done safely, if you want to.

For #2, I haven't a clue why a tramp freighter captain would leave (and pay upkeep for) their low berths, especially for 20 of them.

 

[atpollard]

I look forward to travel by low berth ... when you wake up at the other end it is automatically a Great Day ...
"Bring it on world, I am ready for you!"

[Of course, it helps if you are a 5 term ex-scout ... "Never tell me the odds."]

 

[Condottiere]

Apparently, if you play a Luriani, possibly in Luriani manufactured, quality controlled, and maintained low berths, you get off scot-free.

 

[Reynard]

Exedore6, remember that low berths have life support built in so you gain nothing by their loss. As to passengers willing to take such accommodations, that's up to the referee though random tables for each type of passenger could be constructed. If the players want passengers as part of normal play, I'm sure the ref will make high passage least available while low berth will often see the highest demand. The adventurous and desperate will see to that. It's win-win since you receive CR1000-2000, there's no life support cost associated with low berth, they are part of overall ship maintenance and the passengers never complain during transit. Do remember lotteries, as with most gambling, always favors the House or ship in this case.

The availability of competent medical personnel goes with the territory with player ships a real toss up as to having qualified staff and that becomes a role playing issue if the players and ref want it. It can be assumes higher quality transportation will have better quality staff to attract more to the cattle crates in the bilge and government spare no (taxpayer) expense to assure the survivability of their crews... and the frozen watch too.

 

[AndrewW]

Exedore6, remember that low berths have life support built in so you gain nothing by their loss. As to passengers willing to take such accommodations, that's up to the referee though random tables for each type of passenger could be constructed. If the players want passengers as part of normal play, I'm sure the ref will make high passage least available while low berth will often see the highest demand. The adventurous and desperate will see to that. It's win-win since you receive CR1000-2000, there's no life support cost associated with low berth, they are part of overall ship maintenance and the passengers never complain during transit..

Life Support - 100 per low berth

 

[Reynard]

Right... missed by one page when I was hunting. Thank you. Still, 2000-3000 vs. 100 is a big difference. Seriously though, if players and/or refs hate them so much then rip them out for a couple tons of cargos and be happy. My group needs the space for a sick bay rather than hostages.

 

[exedore6]

Right... missed by one page when I was hunting. Thank you. Still, 2000-3000 vs. 100 is a big difference. Seriously though, if players and/or refs hate them so much then rip them out for a couple tons of cargos and be happy. My group needs the space for a sick bay rather than hostages.

20 Low berths cost 2000/month in life support. Takes up 10 tons. At 1000/ton freight & two jumps a month, those 10 tons could yeild Cr20,000/month and reduce your overhead by Cr2,400. But I do see where I made a math mistake. 2 jumps a month would be 40 low berth tickets, yielding Cr40,000 (Less life support, less low lottery) - Cr37,600 (versus Cr20,000 for freight)

 

[heron61]

I want to point out that from a profitability standpoint, if you rip out your low berths and convert it into cargo space, your life support costs go down, and you have more room for freight, it ends up a wash for a Stock Type-A. (Not to mention you'll be able to take bigger shipments, and won't need to ever pay out the low lottery)

So, I think the questions are
1. Is it possible to have a good odds if your careful without house rules?
2. Why would free traders have so any low berths?

Those are excellent points. Also, if low berths were actually extremely dangerous, then why would anyone use them, when the alternative is both cheap and safe - Fast Drug - 200 Cr/dose and all you need for low berth passengers using Fast Drug is a Bunk (from Vehicles) with straps to keep the passenger from falling out - 0.5 tons and bunks cost 200 Cr, so they are both cheaper then low berths, can carry twice as many passengers, and are risk free. Therefore, the only reason low berths remotely make sense is if they are (if used properly) at least as safe. Heck, Fast Drug is TL 10, so pretty much if a world can build starships, they can make Fast Drug. Even with comparable safety, I'm not sure why the standard for really cheap travel wouldn't be Fast Drug and being strapped into a bunk.

 

[Condottiere]

Cut the dose one sixth to about ten days, and you can mix in a sedative.

 

[Reynard]

Why would the game feature an alternative to low berths if it's so superior? Why not just never include low berths in the game and have half cattle berths with stacked bunks installed? I can't imagine why the designers created two systems that clash so harshly in the game.

Taking a moment to research I notice one thing that was lost between Classic Traveller and Mongoose Traveller; at the moment, I can't speak for any editions in between. MgT dropped Availability for drugs as well as legality Tasks for possession. Fast might be cheap but it wasn't universally available or legal. In other words, it wasn't supposed to be over the counter. That was the balance and why low berth was preferred. Fast drug needed a Availability roll 9+ to even find or obtain it. That is not going to a drug store shelf. Next, you need to make a Law Level roll to see if you can even possess the stuff on a particular world. Fail the roll and port security inspecting your vessel for contraband can get nasty. Ships, especially large commercial vessels, would seldom bother if it's such a hassle.

By simplifying the rules, they took low berth out of the picture. I think it's only fair to bring back those two rolls or drop low berths as useless.

 

[Condottiere]

Has anyone yet won a war on drugs?

 

[Reynard]

Only in little paper cut measures. Same for the war on theft, murder or molestation and you keep on trying. Crime and law in Traveller happen too including restricted or contrabands substances.

 

[GypsyComet]

Next, you need to make a Law Level roll to see if you can even possess the stuff on a particular world. Fail the roll and port security inspecting your vessel for contraband can get nasty.

Imperial Port Extrality doesn't work like that, IIRC. Customs and local laws don't kick in until you leave the port, or set down at a secondary (ie. local and/or private) port. Pick your landing spots carefully and don't wave around things the locals object to.