Life Support Costs for Barracks and Small Cabins

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

While working on some ship designs, I came across something that I don't remember being asked or answered, even with the HG errata.

What are the life support costs for Barracks?

TMB gives LS costs for Staterooms and Low Berths (Page 137)

Staterooms: 2,000 Cr per month (3,000 if double occupancy)
Low Berths: 100 Cr per month

I cannot find anything in HG that gives these costs for Small Cabins (referenced in the section on Small Craft) or for Barracks.

None of the designs in HG have Barracks (although some should).

Also, what about Escape Pods for Double Occupancy Staterooms or Barracks, how do you figure those?

I could guess, but I was wondering if anyone has found the info in a published book?

Thanks.

 

[DFW]

While working on some ship designs, I came across something that I don't remember being asked or answered, even with the HG errata.

What are the life support costs for Barracks?

TMB gives LS costs for Staterooms and Low Berths (Page 137)

Staterooms: 2,000 Cr per month (3,000 if double occupancy)
Low Berths: 100 Cr per month

I cannot find anything in HG that gives these costs for Small Cabins (referenced in the section on Small Craft) or for Barracks.

I could guess, but I was wondering if anyone has found the info in a published book?

Thanks.

Barracks require 2 tons/person. That is the same as a double occupancy stateroom. Should result in the same life support costs...

 

[AndrewW]

Life support costs aren't given for barracks or cabin space.

Small craft don't use the life support costs, I wouldn't worry about it for cabin space, for the short term transport of passengers that is meant for just figure it is part of the normal routine and doesn't increase any for additional passengers carried in cabin space (or acceleration couches). As for barracks while they may have less amenities then staterooms they still support one person, I use Cr. 2,000 the same as a single occupancy stateroom.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Cr1500 a month, same as cost per person for a double cabin. Baracks is multi person occupancy so cost per person capacity.

Less of that quality food and decent air fresheners for thos going marine or cattle class

Military ships don't do life pods. Civilian passangers don't do baracks unless its a colony transport or other such. I you want life pods do one per person not carried in any small craft.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I would think that Barracks would require less per person than a double occupancy stateroom. Barracks are more bareboned and with multiple people per space, the heating, lighting, gravity and lavatory needs will be more efficiently used, so should be less than for staterooms. This is based on my experience on submarines (barracks living) and on cruise ships (double occupancy staterooms). But, using 1,500 Cr per person is probably OK. If I do that though, there just doesn't seem to be any advantage to using Barracks. You don't save in tonnage and you won't save in life support. Sure they are a bit cheaper, but considering the cost of most ships, the difference is trivial.

Andrew, thanks for the confirmation.

Maybe I will go with 1,000 Cr per month for Barracks and small cabins. Small Cabins are only really used when you have long trips in a sublight craft, so there should be some cost.

Regarding Escape Pods, I am leaning towards 1 escape pod per 2 barracks, so an escape pod can handle 2 people.

 

[DFW]

I would think that Barracks would require less per person than a double occupancy stateroom. Barracks are more bareboned and with multiple people per space, the heating, lighting, gravity and lavatory needs will be more efficiently used,

Heating, lighting, gravity & lavatories installed don't contribute to ongoing supply costs. The 1st 3 are supplied by the power plant and don't cost anything on monthly basis. The amount of times you flush the toilet and use water don't change because of the amount of sinks/toilets/showers. It is dependent on the # of people. The costs you pay monthly are based on food consumption, air filtration consumables and the like. Again, not effected by number of rooms but on # of people consuming said items...

If anything, a marine is going to eat more than an average person...

 

[Captain Jonah]

Maybe I will go with 1,000 Cr per month for Barracks and small cabins. Small Cabins are only really used when you have long trips in a sublight craft, so there should be some cost.

Regarding Escape Pods, I am leaning towards 1 escape pod per 2 barracks, so an escape pod can handle 2 people.

Fair enough.

Remember life pods have 2 man hours of air. Putting two people in one dosen't give you much time.

You didn't say what type of ship you were looking at. If the people in the baracks were trained crew then put in emergency soft suits (CSC page 141) as they are much cheaper and last 4 hours.

 

[rust]

In my view (and setting) barracks require a lot less life support per per-
son than staterooms.

On the technical side, much of the material (e.g. air filters, etc.) is used
per room, not per person, so with more persons in the same room these
costs should go down.

On the service side, what the (in my setting's case) colonists in the bar-
racks get to eat and drink is basically a version of MREs, not the kind of
stuff one would dare to offer a normal paying passenger.

And any kind of "janitorial service" is the colonists' own task anyway, the-
re are no stewards or robots to do it for them - if they want to have clean
showers and toilets, they have to clean them.

In the end, in my setting the result is somewhere around 500 to 750 Cre-
dits per person per week on board.

 

[Captain Jonah]

I would think that Barracks would require less per person than a double occupancy stateroom. Barracks are more bareboned and with multiple people per space, the heating, lighting, gravity and lavatory needs will be more efficiently used,

If anything, a marine is going to eat more than an average person...

True but Cr2000 a month on meals and snacks is some good quality food

If half the monthly stateroom support is the life support and such like then the other half is food and drink. So a stateroom costs Cr1000 for life support for the whole room and Cr1000 per person for food and drink.
Cr2000 for single and Cr3000 for double.

As RTK said there doesn't seem to be a reason to use barracks instead of staterooms which are double occupied. Perhaps split the diff, Cr1000 per person food/drink and Cr250 per person in life support for the barracks. So Cr1250 per person in barracks.

Food is just as good but the barracks is going to be a bit more smelly than those air freshened passenger staterooms.

 

[DFW]

In my view (and setting) barracks require a lot less life support per per-
son than staterooms.

On the technical side, much of the material (e.g. air filters, etc.) is used
per room, not per person, so with more persons in the same room these
costs should go down.

Those materials aren't installed on a room by room basis. It is central like on a sub.

On the service side, what the (in my setting's case) colonists in the bar-
racks get to eat and drink is basically a version of MREs, not the kind of
stuff one would dare to offer a normal paying passenger.

At least in the US services, Marines while on board ships don't eat MREs. They eat as well or, even better than "mid passage" passengers.

And any kind of "janitorial service" is the colonists' own task anyway, there are no stewards or robots to do it for them - if they want to have clean showers and toilets, they have to clean them.

In Traveller "janitorial" stuff is a separate cost item (see Steward for details) and doesn't factor in to cost per staterooms and the like.

 

[Captain Jonah]

In the end, in my setting the result is somewhere around 500 to 750 Cre-
dits per person per week on board.

Which is more expensive than a single occupancy stateroom

 

[rust]

Which is more expensive than a single occupancy stateroom

Not in my setting, there the average passage is about 1,500 Credits per
person and week on board, so a colonist's barracks passage is between
1/2 and 1/3 of a normal passage, depending on the route travelled (the
more away from the core worlds, the more expensive it becomes, becau-
se the ship probably has to return empty).

 

[Captain Jonah]

Which is more expensive than a single occupancy stateroom

Not in my setting, there the average passage is about 1,500 Credits per
person and week on board, so a colonist's barracks passage is between
1/2 and 1/3 of a normal passage, depending on the route travelled (the
more away from the core worlds, the more expensive it becomes, becau-
se the ship probably has to return empty).

Are you talking pure life support costs or the cost to traveller for the passenger?

 

[rust]

Those materials aren't installed on a room by room basis. It is central like on a sub.

How do you happen to know how the life support systems in my setting's
ships are designed ? :lol:

At least in the US services, Marines while on board ships don't eat MREs. They eat as well or, even better than "mid passage" passengers.

This makes sense for soldiers, who are expected to remain fit for action,
but less so for colonists, where the line has no interest in their fitness and
the colonists have great interest in a low passage price.

In Traveller "janitorial" stuff is a separate cost item (see Steward for details) and doesn't factor in to cost per staterooms and the like.

The steward's monthly wage is a seperate cost item, but not the material
he uses for his work, unless you expect him to pay the cleanser etc. with
his own money. And since the colonists are very likely to clean their bar-
racks less often than a better paying passenger would expect the steward
to clean his stateroom for him, less material is used.

 

[rust]

Are you talking pure life support costs or the cost to traveller for the passenger?

Total passage costs, which in my setting is basically the life support cost
plus the much smaller ship operation costs and a little profit. The more
passengers on the ship, the smaller the share of the other costs compa-
red to the life support costs, so that with a colony ship or a big passenger
liner the total passage cost and the life support cost are almost identical.

 

[AndrewW]

Regarding Escape Pods, I am leaning towards 1 escape pod per 2 barracks, so an escape pod can handle 2 people.

That's what I do, one escape pod per 2 barracks.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Regarding Escape Pods, I am leaning towards 1 escape pod per 2 barracks, so an escape pod can handle 2 people.

That's what I do, one escape pod per 2 barracks.

Shesh you lot are hard on your passengers.

Right you lot climb in this survival bubble, oh and don't talk and breath real slow. You'll be find, we will be back long before the hours worth of air runs out. :twisted:

 

[DFW]

Regarding Escape Pods, I am leaning towards 1 escape pod per 2 barracks, so an escape pod can handle 2 people.

That's what I do, one escape pod per 2 barracks.

vacc suits are cheaper and provide more duration...

 

[Captain Jonah]

Regarding Escape Pods, I am leaning towards 1 escape pod per 2 barracks, so an escape pod can handle 2 people.

That's what I do, one escape pod per 2 barracks.

vacc suits are cheaper and provide more duration...

Good idea

Emergency soft suits will give you 4 hours of air plus you can plug them into your ships life support to recharge them, bit hard to do that when the pod has been ejected away from the ship

Still you need vacc suit skill for the suits but I would have thought that aside from the crew any regular traveller would have been through enough safety and evacuation drills to pick up vacc suit 0 after a while.

 

[CosmicGamer]

First, life support and food (and water). I believe there is no difference between the life support costs (2000cr/month) of an empty single occupancy stateroom, mid passage stateroom or high passage stateroom, yet I believe there certainly would be a difference in quantity and quality of food stocked for each situation. There is a difference when you add a person (3000cr/month). Should we assume this implies that food is such a small portion of the life support costs that it can be ignored (because price doesn't drop when there is no passenger or when you stock better food for the high passenger) and the extra amount is for the additional environmental needs of the second person? Do any versions of Traveller discuss a difference in costs between an occupied and unoccupied stateroom? If so, please indicate the version and book where this is covered.

So I've never quite understood the concept of life support costs being the same amount even when a room is empty especially with life support costs including food. Personally, I believe this is for game playability and simplification of record keeping. If it is known ahead of time there will be no passengers, why would you stock up on the food?

It also seams like you could shut down life support systems to certain parts of the ship when it is unused. Perhaps on a more traditional ship carrying passengers you can't shut things down on a per stateroom basis but for a colony ship on the return trip it should be able to shut down life support to the barracks that are now empty.