Legendary Abilities

Banesfinger

Mongoose
I am about to expose my long-time D&D group to MRQ.

The group is used to the "crunch" of D&D's feat system. I worry the lack of such a mechanic in MRQ may leave them wanting.

I know MRQ has Legendary Abilities, but only at the upper skill levels, and not nearly the selection they are used to. I realize MRQ has a more distinct 'low-fantasy' feel, however my players like feats (even at low levels) because it gives them unique abilities that stand out above the masses.

Has anyone else encountered this during play?
Has anyone attempted to add more or house-rule the Legendary Abilities?

Thanks for your insight.
 
For my Runequest Modern game, I defined quite a few "heroic advantages", which can be taken before reaching "legendary status". Some of these even are restricted to only being able to be taken at character creation.

To allow PCs to start out with heroic advantages, they start out with 3-18 hero points and 3-18 advantage points. But then I forsee RQ-Modern characters as starting out at the "master level".

I intend to eventually get some of this stuff on the Runequest Wiki, but other things keep interfering with getting my thoughts organized.
 
Look at it this way. Lots of the things that D&D needs feats to do, Runequest can do out of the box.

Want someone to be better at fencing ? Raise your rapier skill.
Want to be a burly brawling type ? Thats what SIZ and unarmed skill is for.
Want to be the smooth talking gallant ? Influence etc.

There's no artificial thing saying that you can only be skilled to a certain point, because you are "level 1", or that you cannot begin play being good at both sneaking and fighting.
Want to make a blacksmith that enjoys studying ancient languages ? Perfectly possible, and not viable (or even possible) in D&D.
Care for an herbalist healer that is also a sharpshooter with a crossbow ? Sure thing!
Likewise, combat maneuvers in RQ arent set up to be largely impossible without a feat. There's no "oh, everyone can try this maneuver.... but if you didnt take the feat, you get -4".


Rather than trying to make Runequest more like D&D, play to its strengths and let your players experience something different and fresh (to them).
Personality and individuality comes from play, not from the rules :)
 
I think weasel has good point. Many of my group hadn't touched RQ before, being mostly d20, though some had tried Call of Cthulhu so had a little idea of BRP/d100 based games. One was even very _D&D_ orientated, never mind about d20! But the idea of the character who isn't tied to a strict structure but who can be shaped caught on really quickly... as did the realisation that "feats" weren't necessary but the additional bonuses of the more powerful Legendary Abilities were really useful and worth waiting for.
 
Banesfinger said:
I am about to expose my long-time D&D group to MRQ.

The group is used to the "crunch" of D&D's feat system. I worry the lack of such a mechanic in MRQ may leave them wanting.

I wouldn't go there if I was you. Make it a clean break, instead of trying to meld D&D and RQ. It will be easier for them. D&D is such a complicated mass of rules and mechanisms, that the basic d100 system will be very easy on the players in comparison.

I'd bet they'll "get" the system in the first session of play and won't miss feats that add +1 to a roll, or one hitpoint per level, and other such fiddly bits.
 
weasel_fierce said:
Lots of the things that D&D needs feats to do, Runequest can do out of the box. Want someone to be better at fencing ? Raise your rapier skill. There's no artificial thing saying that you can only be skilled to a certain point, because you are "level 1", or that you cannot begin play being good at both sneaking and fighting.

I totally agree Weasel_fierce.
It was the lack of these artificial limits that brought our group to MRQ. We all really hated the Classes/Levels/XP limits of games like D&D, Rolemaster/Harp, etc.

MRQ is a great looking game :D and I think my group will love it.

As indicated by the other posts, I know feats that add +5% to a skill, etc would be silly with MRQ.

I just wondered if there was any house-rules/etc that added mechanisms to do things beyond the rules.

Examples:
- an "ability" that allows you to use your influence skill on animals.
- an "ability" that allows better night vision
- etc
 
Banesfinger said:
I just wondered if there was any house-rules/etc that added mechanisms to do things beyond the rules.

Examples:
- an "ability" that allows you to use your influence skill on animals.
- an "ability" that allows better night vision
- etc

That kind of thing is generally covered by additional skills and spells gained by joining cults. If you belong to a cult whose role within your society is raising and herding animals, you might belong to say Barntar (the Orlanthi god of farming) or Ernalda Allmother (the Orlanthi goddess of the earth). From these cults you will gain access to skills and spells allowing you to control animals. Someone who belongs to Issaries (the Orlanthi god of trade) would have no such access, and therefore is far less likely to have those kinds of skills and spells.

Likewise a character who belongs to Yelmalio (the son of the Sun god Yelm) has access to Catseye, a spell that allows him to see normally so long as there is at least some source of light.

Note that it fairly common for people in Glorantha to be initiated into more than one cult (as long as they are compatible with each other), and therefore have access to a range of abilities. However, initiates have to commit a certain amount of time (and income!) to cult activities, so they are unlikely to join very many.
 
oh, and just in case... I hope I didnt sound like I was being demeaning or an "anti D20 snob" (though I am ;) ).

A simple option would be to use "enhancements" to ksills. For 10 skill points you can expand the focus of a skill, f.x. to influence animals (though I'd just roll animal lore for that, I think), or to use your perception in the dark or whatever.

Just limit it to when it seems reasonable.
 
gamesmeister said:
That kind of thing is generally covered by additional skills and spells gained by joining cults.

Good to know Gamesmeister. I hesitate slightly at this suggestion because I don't want to rely too much on world-specific mechanics (e.g., Glorantha). I say this only because I hope to use Lankhmar when it comes out next month :D and I don't want conflicting cults/etc.

weasel_fierce said:
I hope I didnt sound like I was being demeaning or an "anti D20 snob"

Nope - you did not come across that way :D Your suggestions are great.
 
In one of the threads we worked out rules on specialization. On my "to do" list is to write down this data and put it up on the runequest wiki, so I won't go into too much detail here. The basic idea is that you can add your specialization skill to your general skill to get your effective skill.

The downside is this makes it really easy to get above 100%, so rules for handling skills above 100% become more important.

When I get back home, I'll post a list of some heroic advantages I had come up with, and whether they still stand as heroic advantages or whether they've been converted to advanced skills.
 
You can find a free PDF with twelve more legendary abilities here:

http://www.roninarts.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=44&products_id=457
 
The following is a partial list of heroic advantages I've come up with, some of which were converted to advanced skills.

Absolute Timing: You always know what time it is. A minor quirk, stolen from GURPS and priced at 5 hero points. This could be made an advanced skill, although that would just mean extra die rolls to determine if you know what time it is. So it's probably better as a heroic ability.

CPR Training: You are able to administer advanced CPR techniques. I originally made it an heroic advantage, costing only 2 points, to reflect the fact that there are advanced techniques that would not be available to the basic skill First Aid (especially those from archaic cultures, where CPR techniques would not even have been invented yet). But in a thread, I was convinced that this would be better handled as an advanced skill.

Expanded Intellect: Advanced concepts come easy to you. Must be taken at character creation. I don't see this as working as a skill; characters with Expanded Intellect can gain certain skills faster than normal.

Extraordinary Attractiveness: You are extraordinarily attractive. This does not make much sense as a legendary ability; a PC would have to take this at character creation. I don't see this working as an advanced skill, either, although I suppose a Cosmetics skill could be used to gain further advantage.

Martial Arts Training: Improved Damage: You can do extra damage with an unarmed attack. Axtxtq and I worked out a system where the normal Martial Arts skill can be used to determine extra damage, rather than just assume a +1D6. One of these days I should put it on the wiki.

Not the Face: You can force one reroll for hit location any time you are hit in the face by an attack. The second roll determines where the attack really hits. I suppose you could have a Direct Blow advanced skill to try to direct a blow away from a hit location you didn't want hit. I like the Not the Face heroic advantage, though. It's good for a guy called 'Face'.

Photographic Memory: You have true photographic memory. It is possible to define a Memory skill, but the point of this ability is to avoid having to roll Memory skill rolls. Also, it can only be taken at character creation.

Rapid Calculator: You can calculate mathematical problems very rapidly. This is another advantage that I stole from GURPS.

Two-Weapon Fighting: You are skilled with fighting with two weapons. This was adapted from the D&D feat of that name. I've decided it makes more sense to make a Two-Weapon Fighting skill specialization, but if you are not using skill specializations, what else can you do? Note: I've also decided to house rule the two weapon fighting rules to make two weapon fighting a lot harder for someone who does not have special training, in my campaign, in the form of the specialization.

Virtuous: You have a strong code of honor that sustains you in times of weakness. I came up with this advantage when I was trying to figure out how to determine whether a PC would be liable for getting a speeding ticket. Since defining this heroic advantage, I've decided that a Virtue advanced skill may work better, i.e., you can roll your Virtue if you have it and it would help you resist a spell or temptation, et cetera.

Wealthier: You can increase your wealth. This provides a way for a PC to play a very wealthy character, even one as rich as Bill Gates if the player is willing to spend the advantage/hero points, which could be within reach of a dedicated PC.

Anyway, the preceeding is intended to be examples of how I've thought of using heroic advantages. I think for Runequest Modern, I need them.

For Runequest Iron Kingdoms, I probably do not, although I did come up with a concept of metaphysical skills to allow for special special abilities (e.g. Rage or Uncanny Dodge). Metaphysical skills essentially become a kind of magic which can only be learned by someone who's mastered that skill. I'll probably put these into an upcoming thread soon.)

Hope this helps.
 
Banesfinger said:
I just wondered if there was any house-rules/etc that added mechanisms to do things beyond the rules.

Examples:
- an "ability" that allows you to use your influence skill on animals.
- an "ability" that allows better night vision
- etc

I would do these with Legendary Abilities, but I'd make them Special Abilities and waive the Requirements.

You can integrate a Darkness Rune and that will allow you to see in the dark (although I don't like the idea).

The thing with Legendary Abilities is that you can use the idea and make as many as you want. So, make up a load of Legendary Abilities and post them.

In fact, I am trying to convert some of them for my RQ3 campaign and am writing new ones for that campaign.
 
The "different from the masses" argument is not really appropriate with RQ.

The points spare after the culture and profession are to personalise the character too individual wants.

If you want them to be tougher, just give them more points at the start. Simple really.

D&D and D20 are good for some things, and the hardest thing to get the players to understand is that they do not have billions of Hit Points, that a dagger can fell the hardiest of warriors. A wizard can wield a sword as well as a barbarian...

As others have said, a clean break from D20 is what would be best.
 
But if your players really must have D&D-style feats, you could try something like I've done for my campaign (a RQ/D&D blend):
http://www.boldhome.freeserve.co.uk/panrules/skills_f.htm

Basically there are a few special skills, which give minor advantages if successful, and allow a related special ability to be chosen for each 20% gained. (e.g. a character could take the "Mighty Thews" skill, which gives double strength for one non-combat action if successful, and choose, say, the "Berserk Rage" special ability when they reach 20%, another at 40%, etc.).

They are a bit like Legendary Abilities but gained at the outset and so add character at low levels. I introduced them because I liked the D&D feats (and it seems the Mongoose people do, too). For a Gloranthan campaign, you may not need them as characters get a good amount of their, er, character from their cults. Also, at least one player also missed the thrill of D&D "level-ups" (on the rare occasions he actually made it up a level!).

The abilities in that system are based on the D&D3.5 Feats (or should I say d20?), converted to the best of my ability, so your players shouldn't get too homesick for good ol' D&D...
 
For a campaign I'm working on, I'm adding some Legendary Abilities that are race specific.
(I haven't pinned down exactly which races will be available to the PCs, but we are working on it.)

For example, one of the races has natural weapons - claws.

Iron Claws
Requirements: (name of race), Str 15+, Claw weapon skill 90%+
Cost: 8
Your claws become formidable natural weapons as tough and durable as metal. As such, they may parry weapon attacks.
 
barasawa said:
For a campaign I'm working on, I'm adding some Legendary Abilities that are race specific.

Iron Claws

Handy for some Hsunchen in a Gloranthan context, or even some Timinits or sentient creatures such as Wyrms. Still, this seems to me to be more like a spell effect than a Legendary Ability.
 
It would propably be easy to make something like [spell effect]. You have permanently the effect of a given spell active on yourself. Cost could be 2 hero points per magnitude or whatnot

Handy for natural armour, natural spell resistance, claws of death and whatnot
 
weasel_fierce said:
It would propably be easy to make something like [spell effect]. You have permanently the effect of a given spell active on yourself. Cost could be 2 hero points per magnitude or whatnot

Maybe. My instinct with LAs is that while spell effects change the way the world is, LAs are things that you do. So for example a spell effect will give you magical skin amour, or heal damage while an LA is a special dodge maneuver or supernaturally fast healing rate.

I know that's a pretty subtle difference. Obviously casting a spell is something you do, but the result generally changes reality in an objective fashion. Once it's cast, that's just the way things are for it's duration. Whereas an LA is an action you perform, much like a skill.
 
I very much agree with you actually. What I was suggesting was more an idea for using spell effects as a "special power", rather than as an actual permanent spell. Basically just use the rule from one thing, to do something else, mechanically.
 
Back
Top