Legality of ship weapons

[jwpacker]

I've seen lots of discussion about law levels and legality of hand weapons and the like here, but nothing much about ships weapons (please correct me if my searches were insufficient) - and my search through all of the docs I have (Classic, MgT, GURPS...) leads me to only a few instances of reference to legality of ships weapons, all in GURPS 3rd edition, with regards to missiles (non-standard warheads on the 250mm "standard" missile and any 500mm "heavy" missiles being verboten).

Any canon on what the Imperium allows folks to carry? Any house rules about the same that you'd like to share?

 

[rust]

My usual houserule is that most civilian starships are unarmed or
have only light point defence weapons, because only such ships
are allowed to land on most frontier worlds, especially on those
with potentially vulnerable artificial habitats. All civilian ships with
more destructive weaponry have to stay in a far orbit and to use
lighters or small craft to transfer passengers and cargo between
the far orbit and the planetary surface.

 

[jwpacker]

My usual houserule is that most civilian starships are unarmed or
have only light point defence weapons, because only such ships
are allowed to land on most frontier worlds, especially on those
with potentially vulnerable artificial habitats. All civilian ships with
more destructive weaponry have to stay in a far orbit and to use
lighters or small craft to transfer passengers and cargo between
the far orbit and the planetary surface.

What constitutes light, point-defense in YTU? Beam lasers and sandcasters only? Are pulse lasers allowed to come to port? Not even conventional, turret mounted missiles are allowed?

 

[rust]

What constitutes light, point-defense in YTU? Beam lasers and sandcasters only?

Yes.

Are pulse lasers allowed to come to port? Not even conventional, turret mounted missiles are allowed?

No weapon able to breach the hull of a domed habitat or
to severely damage a vital installation like a power plant
is allowed near the planetary surface, it would be too ea-
sy to take an entire colony as a hostage or to wipe it out
with a single well aimed laser shot or missile.

Just imagine a foreign merchant ship armed with lasers
and missiles attempting to dock at the port of New York
or London ...

 

[jwpacker]

No weapon able to breach the hull of a domed habitat or
to severely damage a vital installation like a power plant
is allowed near the planetary surface, it would be too ea-
sy to take an entire colony as a hostage or to wipe it out
with a single well aimed laser shot or missile.

Just imagine a foreign merchant ship armed with lasers
and missiles attempting to dock at the port of New York
or London ...

Sounds a mite too civilized for my tastes.

I suspect that we just achieve the same result by slightly different means - I allow 'em to have pulse lasers and conventional missiles, and have the forces that you must use to enforce the "no approach" law instead on active patrol as a deterrent. I've yet to have a group of PCs try to strong-arm a planet, but I suppose it could happen some day.

Heck, I'm about to start GM'ing the Pirates of Drinax adventures - the odds just went up significantly!

 

[BP]

CSC may detail some things (it has 'classes' of weapons) - especially with regards to warheads...

Traveller canon includes pirates, and starports are extra-territorial - so my take would be that any starship weapons, at least at such starports, would be legal. The penalties for abuse would be severe, with the presumption that the Gov would have the means to make such a reality (if they don't then the laws would probably be unenforceable anyway).

IMTU, ships approaching civilized worlds would be required to confirm 'lock out' of their weapons systems - non-compliance could result in detainment and confiscation of ship and/or other assets. Much as one declares possession of no illegal firearms when crossing a border.

Sure, ships present a real and present potential for mayhem. But the same could be said of 'pushing' rocks at a planet... or even just re-entry insulated metal rods. Planets and other solar objects on predictable paths would always be vulnerable to space launched attacks.

 

[rust]

Sounds a mite too civilized for my tastes.

Actually it is far more "frontier" than "civilized". :wink:

In a civilized region you have system defence forces and navy
patrols, registered and controlled starships on regularly travel-
led routes and all that, and in the worst case the damage done
by laser or missile would be a local or perhaps regional problem,
not a matter of survival for the entire population of the planet.
The risk you take by allowing a well armed ship to land is com-
paratively small, especially because you know that any misdeed
by the crew could be punished swiftly.

Out on a frontier colony you rarely have a system defence force,
the navy patrols visit the system only occasionally, there is no
well oiled administration with recent data about all starships in
the region, your infrastructure is small and still extremely vulne-
rable, help is more than two weeks away and would come too la-
te, and punishment is meaningless if your colony is dead. All you
can do to minimize the risk is to keep danger at a safe distance.

 

[AndrewW]

IMTU, ships approaching civilized worlds would be required to confirm 'lock out' of their weapons systems - non-compliance could result in detainment and confiscation of ship and/or other assets. Much as one declares possession of no illegal firearms when crossing a border.

But what if you have no telephatic race (ie: Weft's) to verify the lockouts? A cruiser captian might conspire with her weapons officer to fake it, and the telephatic race being friendly to her don't giver her up...

 

[Jacqual]

I allow most weapon systems on private owned starships, excepting nukes and spinal mounts. As in my campaign most High Ports and such are heavily armed for defensive purpose's.

 

[BP]

But what if you have no telephatic race (ie: Weft's) to verify the lockouts? ...

Indeed - What If?...

Just as in real life - there are no guarantees and safety (and sanity) often takes a backseat to commerce.

A long time ago, in a galaxy .. er .. well, this one... I introduced IAS Transponders to my Traveller vict .. er .. players.

The concept is akin to IFF - identification, friend or foe. In my case, IAS stands for Ident And Status. Afterall, it wouldn't do to have a ship inbound with a disabled M-Drive and no knowledge of the fact.

Likewise, the Imperium Astronautics Administration (note, IAA is not an OTU entity to my knowledge!) required the declaration and status of all weapon systems to be transmitted by any vessels within established Intrasystem Transit Demarc Volumes. Violation of ordinances related to ITDVs being punishable by severe civil and criminal penalties, including but not limited to impoundment of transgressing vessels and detainment of any and all personnel suspected of, or in relation to, any such transgressions.

Ala rust's frontier cases - such systems IMTU typically mandated boarding operations to place their personnel aboard any intrud.. er.. incoming vessels - if they had the resources. Otherwise they would react in various ways depending - such as fall all over themselves with courteousness (so as not to be blown to the great collapsar); make pompous and silly bureaucratic demands as if they had some ability they don't; avoid the ship and its occupants and pretend it presented no threat; etc.

 

[Imeanunoharm]

What constitutes light, point-defense in YTU? Beam lasers and sandcasters only?

Yes.

Are pulse lasers allowed to come to port? Not even conventional, turret mounted missiles are allowed?

No weapon able to breach the hull of a domed habitat or
to severely damage a vital installation like a power plant
is allowed near the planetary surface, it would be too ea-
sy to take an entire colony as a hostage or to wipe it out
with a single well aimed laser shot or missile.

Just imagine a foreign merchant ship armed with lasers
and missiles attempting to dock at the port of New York
or London ...

Your frontier colony domes don't come equipped with several particle beam large bays and a few torpedo racks? Tut tut.

 

[jwpacker]

Your frontier colony domes don't come equipped with several particle beam large bays and a few torpedo racks? Tut tut.

And thick armor over those sensitive locations, and all manner of ground and air based point defenses, if they can afford it.

That TL4 world, though, has to rely upon the kindness of the guy running the starport for protection from the otherwise godlike invaders.

 

[far-trader]

House rules only for my part, and CT etc. not quite translated to MgT yet but probably simple enough to do...

Basically two break downs. Size and TL.

Civilian ships (Trader for eg.) are only permitted turret weapons of TL12 maximum. No nukes (naturally), and no deception (popup turrets etc.). EXCEPTIONS are made if employed/deployed in service (for eg. as a called-up auxiliary in time of war).

Para-military (Mercenary for eg.) ships may mount turret weapons, barbettes, and small bays (50ton max) of up to TL14 maximum. Limited nukes (tactical yield) and deception with proper licenses (see EXCEPTION following). EXCEPTIONS are made if employed/deployed in service (for eg. hired for piracy suppression).

Military (Navy for eg.) ships may mount any weapon of any TL with no limit.

...of course in MTU it is presumed most people entrusted with an armed starship are NOT homicidal/suicidal maniacs hell bent on plans of " Today the World! Tommorrow the Empire!! muahahahaha!!! "

...aka Player Characters

 

[GypsyComet]

Between an article in the original run of JTAS/Challenge and the GT book on Starmercs, you can imply that all normal "one ton" Turret types are allowed on civilian designs, but anything heavier requires either a paramilitary license (granted to large enough corporations for their convoy escorts and route security ships) or a Star Merc license (contract versions of the same plus small armies for hire who want power projection in space) or to be part of a duly constituted military. In Imperial space, both licenses are granted by the Imperium via its nobility and Navy, while actual militaries with space presence are a function of worlds with the notion and capability to build and man them, subsector and sector nobility, and the Imperium itself.

 

[nats]

Only rule for weapons in the Imperial legal sphere that I know of is that nuclear weapons are banned throughout the Imperium, which would seem to also suggest ships are banned from having nuclear missiles except Imperial ships. This is extended in a more limited fashion to fusion guns and FGMPs. Otherwise any weapon goes as long as it remains in the starport (ie on Imperial soil). One would suspect that a ship with lasers knowingly landing elsewhere on a world where lasers are banned would have the weapons confiscated possibly.

 

[jwpacker]

Only rule for weapons in the Imperial legal sphere that I know of is that nuclear weapons are banned throughout the Imperium, which would seem to also suggest ships are banned from having nuclear missiles except Imperial ships. This is extended in a more limited fashion to fusion guns and FGMPs. Otherwise any weapon goes as long as it remains in the starport (ie on Imperial soil). One would suspect that a ship with lasers knowingly landing elsewhere on a world where lasers are banned would have the weapons confiscated possibly.

Interestingly, the core book does say that the Imperium keeps nuclear weapons all to themselves, in part because of their destructive nature, and in part because they can be made at such a low TL. But that appears to be in reference to planetary warfare, not out in deep space, where the prohibition is that nuclear missiles can't be used "near an inhabited planet or orbital" but they wouldn't blink an eye at a barrage of nukes being used in the outer part of the solar system, for example...

And they say nothing about Particle Accelerators, Fusion weapons or Meson weapons, all of which are nuclear in some way, and many of which cause radiation damage. Maybe because they're more "precise" in that using a Meson flicker on a ship might irradiate the ship, but it's an explosive effect?

 

[far-trader]

Yes, at least the way I recall it.

My understanding of the No Nukes rule is that it is in reference to planetary strategic (as opposed to tactical) use only. Not a blanket ban at all. I also think it was later expanded on to include all WMD's in use for global warfare. The idea being apparently that such widespread destruction on an Imperial world would negatively impact interstellar trade and stability. Part of joining the Imperium then is a step away from MAD doctrine for superpower world governments because if you cross The Line you are assuredly destroying yourself but not the Imperium.

 

[Moonstruck]

In MTU the Imperial Navy gets whatever they want and can budget for. The Subsector Navies do most of the grunt work of patrol and showing the flag. They get 2nd or 3nd line ships, with a sprinking of state of the art C&C ships for fleet movement. The Planetary Navies are mostly SDB and short range patrol and courier ships.

Scout, Merchant and Star Merc ships are limited to Sandcasters, Missile Racks ( no nukes! ), Pulse and Beam Lasers. For the most part, that is plenty of firepower to fight ships in their own class. It is heavy weapons, armor, advanced computers, sensors, electronics and shields. That make a true fighting ship. The Imperial Navy likes it that way. No up start players a going to have a tradeing ship with "real" firepower.

Unless........... 8)

 

[locarno24]

Scout, Merchant and Star Merc ships are limited to Sandcasters, Missile Racks ( no nukes! ), Pulse and Beam Lasers. For the most part, that is plenty of firepower to fight ships in their own class.

More or less the level I set things at. The key thing is the level of piracy your TU will encounter - if coming up against a corsair with no defence fleet at hand is a possiblility, then you can't really object to pulse lasers - which are akin to the 6-pounder guns a lot of merchants carried in the 'age of sail' traveller draws a lot of inspiration from. Particle artillery, on the other hand...

Having armour is fine, but too many multiple layers and/or bonded superdense is probably a no-no.

 

[AndrewW]

Having armour is fine, but too many multiple layers and/or bonded superdense is probably a no-no.

Being defensive in nature I don't see armour as an issue.