Learning Combat Styles

[WoeRie]

I'm a bit confused. If I look at the table on page 74, it states that it will cost 150 silver to learn a new Combat Style. However on page 13:

All Close Combat and Ranged Combat Styles start at the
basic percentages listed in the following table but are tracked separately and do not automatically
appear in the Common Skills section of the Legend Adventurer Sheet.

This sounds for me as if they were free to learn.

Does it require 1 month + 150 silver to learn a new Combat Style or is it free? Or do I miss something else?

Thanks for your help!

 

[SSWarlock]

In my opinion..

It costs 150 silver to learn a new Combat Style. But once the character has gone through the month-long training, the learned skill starts out at the basic percentage listed and it's up to the character to improve it from that point. The key point is the fact that Combat Styles ".. do not automatically appear in the Common Skills section of the Legend Adventurer Sheet." If they did, they'd be common (i.e. free) skills.

 

[DamonJynx]

The cost for learning 'New Combat Styles' is referring to additional combat styles, other than those selected as part of Culture and Profession at character creation - which are free and start at their base values.

Say I get to choose 1 CS each from my Culture and Profession and I pick a melee style as my cultural choice and a ranged style for my professional choice, then to learn a third style would cost me the 150 coins and time to learn and so on.

 

[DamonJynx]

The key point is the fact that Combat Styles ".. do not automatically appear in the Common Skills section of the Legend Adventurer Sheet." If they did, they'd be common (i.e. free) skills.

Technically they are. "Melee Combat Style - STR+DEX" and "Ranged Combat Style - DEX*2" are 'common skills' and available to every character. You have to define them as part of character creation with your free styles from culture and profession, see my post above. If for some reason, neither your culture or profession provides an option for selecting combat styles then they need to be 'purchased' as you would an advanced skill - 10 free skill points + a maximum of a further 20 free skill points at character creation or by spending the coin and time after character creation.

 

[SSWarlock]

Technically they are. "Melee Combat Style - STR+DEX" and "Ranged Combat Style - DEX*2" are 'common skills' and available to every character. <snip>

I stand corrected. Thank you for clarifying, good sir.

 

[DamonJynx]

Technically they are. "Melee Combat Style - STR+DEX" and "Ranged Combat Style - DEX*2" are 'common skills' and available to every character. <snip>

I stand corrected. Thank you for clarifying, good sir.

You are most welcome. Some parts of the Legend rule book need an additional line or two of text to add clarity.

 

[WoeRie]

Yes, I agree, a line or two to explain this in the rule book would be nice Though I would simply drop that they are common skills and make them advanced.

I play it at the moment that it is always possible to use a weapon you are not used to at your Base Melee or Ranged Combat Style value. However if you want to improve it by training or experience you have to buy it as a new Combat Style.

Many thanks for the clarification to both of you!

 

[Olaus Petrus]

Yes, I agree, a line or two to explain this in the rule book would be nice Though I would simply drop that they are common skills and make them advanced.

I play it at the moment that it is always possible to use a weapon you are not used to at your Base Melee or Ranged Combat Style value. However if you want to improve it by training or experience you have to buy it as a new Combat Style.

Many thanks for the clarification to both of you!

Combat styles are common skills in the sense that anyone can try to use any weapon even if he doesn't have any combat styles, but in case of advanced skills it's GMs decision if you automatically fail because you don't have that skill or if you can use some related common skill with negative modifiers instead. It's important distinction and the reason why combat styles aren't in advanced skill category.

 

[DamonJynx]

...but in case of advanced skills it's GMs decision if you automatically fail because you don't have that skill or if you can use some related common skill with negative modifiers instead. It's important distinction and the reason why combat styles aren't in advanced skill category.

The RAW regarding the use of advanced skills that characters don't possess is that it is at half the base chance, not an auto fail. GM's are free to houserule that if they so choose.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

...but in case of advanced skills it's GMs decision if you automatically fail because you don't have that skill or if you can use some related common skill with negative modifiers instead. It's important distinction and the reason why combat styles aren't in advanced skill category.

The RAW regarding the use of advanced skills that characters don't possess is that it is at half the base chance, not an auto fail. GM's are free to houserule that if they so choose.

I think that it's rather clear:

Legend rules page 42.

Defaulting from an Advanced Skill
Note that while everyone has some facility with Common skills, Advanced skills are generally
only possessed by specialists. Nevertheless, there will be times when an untrained Adventurer
attempts to use an Advanced skill, even though they do not possess it.

In these cases, the Games Master may make one of two decisions. The first is that the task is
simply impossible for the Adventurer. The Adventurer automatically fails the test.

Alternately, the Games Master may decide that a default Common skill may be used for that
specific situation, as long as there is a logical link between the original Advanced skill and the
substitute Common skill. However, such substituted Skill Tests normally suffer at least a –20%
penalty, often more.

My own ruling is that magic skills and many language, lore or craft skills are automatic failure if character doesn't have any basic understanding of the skill, but you can try to survive with rowboat in storm even if you don't have boating skill, it's just more difficult.

 

[DamonJynx]

...stuff

And I stand corrected. My apologies. We've been playing that way for ages (as per my post), I wonder where that came from...

 

[Tias]

Somewhat on the subject, why are there not really any dual wield combat style in vanilla Legend? I know it's not so common, but you'd imagine at least some civilized people dual-wielding fencing blades, or nomads representing with curved blades?

I'd like to add some, but I'm not sure where to start.

Fake edit: Wouldn't it make more sense to add some styles to certain professions? Letting noble warriors wield swords, mercenaries dual wield axe and dagger, that sort of thing.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

Somewhat on the subject, why are there not really any dual wield combat style in vanilla Legend? I know it's not so common, but you'd imagine at least some civilized people dual-wielding fencing blades, or nomads representing with curved blades?

I'd like to add some, but I'm not sure where to start.

Fake edit: Wouldn't it make more sense to add some styles to certain professions? Letting noble warriors wield swords, mercenaries dual wield axe and dagger, that sort of thing.

Elric of Melniboné campaign setting for Legend has some dual weapon combat styles (mostly swords and parrying daggers) and I assume that other campaign settings have similar combat styles. And inventing new ones isn't particularly difficult and you can just create new skills like combat style duelist (rapier and parrying dagger) etc. Personally I invent new combat styles all the time for NPC characters (mostly because I can't be bothered to define separate fighting skills for every weapon which generic NPC characters have, so instead I give them skills like combat style city militia or combat style barbarian mercenary).

 

[DamonJynx]

Elric of Melniboné campaign setting for Legend has some dual weapon combat styles (mostly swords and parrying daggers) and I assume that other campaign settings have similar combat styles. And inventing new ones isn't particularly difficult and you can just create new skills like combat style duelist (rapier and parrying dagger) etc. Personally I invent new combat styles all the time for NPC characters (mostly because I can't be bothered to define separate fighting skills for every weapon which generic NPC characters have, so instead I give them skills like combat style city militia or combat style barbarian mercenary).

+1. That's exactly what I do. For instance, Backstabbing Bastard (Shortsword & Main Gauche).