League Initiative
- Thread starter KennyBoy
- Start date
-------KennyBoy said:
The prior poster is incorrect! Check page 5 of the Fleet Lists, this
shows the rules that are used for a league fleet. The other thing is
the 'init' of the League fleet does not change, in a Gaim fleet, if the
Queen dies, the CREW QUALITY suffers a minus 4 and the INIT is set
to minus 3, page 112, under Gaim special rules.
I think Burgers right dude. Page five says
"The overall initiative of the fleet will be +0 unless any of the fleets used have a lower initiative. If this is the case, use the lower initiative."
Were on pg5 does it say the initiative of the league fleet does not change?
We also play that if the low init ships get killed, the fleets init can move up. Eg. If a mixed fleet of vree and pak were on the table, and the pak all got destroyed, the fleets init reverts from -3, back to 0. The logic being that not having to co-ordinate and talk to the pak lets the vree operate at their normal speed of communication. Also we couldn't find anything that says it can't be played this way.
"The overall initiative of the fleet will be +0 unless any of the fleets used have a lower initiative. If this is the case, use the lower initiative."
Were on pg5 does it say the initiative of the league fleet does not change?
We also play that if the low init ships get killed, the fleets init can move up. Eg. If a mixed fleet of vree and pak were on the table, and the pak all got destroyed, the fleets init reverts from -3, back to 0. The logic being that not having to co-ordinate and talk to the pak lets the vree operate at their normal speed of communication. Also we couldn't find anything that says it can't be played this way.
The list of allowed League rules on pg5 is known to be bugged, in fact before 2e it didn't even contain any pak or Gaim rules even though they obviously applied, and no changes were ever made through S&P. So common sense rather than the letter of the rules should be applied.
The Gaim rules have set the precedent, that initiative is not "fixed" at the start of a game, in fact it can change during the course of a battle, as Banichi says. So a pure Gaim fleet's init will drop to -3 when the queen is killed. A League fleet's init will adapt to be the lowest of its race's init. Pak are all killed, it goes up to 0. Gaim's goes down to -3, it goes down to -3 for the fleet.
The Gaim rules have set the precedent, that initiative is not "fixed" at the start of a game, in fact it can change during the course of a battle, as Banichi says. So a pure Gaim fleet's init will drop to -3 when the queen is killed. A League fleet's init will adapt to be the lowest of its race's init. Pak are all killed, it goes up to 0. Gaim's goes down to -3, it goes down to -3 for the fleet.
Burger said:
Well, the loss of the Command ship's Bonus to the overall initiative value is surely meant to reflect the loss of the technologies and personnel aboard said ship that aid in the fleet's overall ability to co-ordinate movement and attacks.
As you originally stated, the disarray caused at the loss of the Gaim Queen, and her ability to assist in the League fleet's overall co-ordination would surely be reflected by the drop in initiative score...
JTL109 said:
Yes, but the Gaim are part of the League. Ok, the queen rules apply only to the gaim, but when they are part of a mixed league fleet the page 5 init rules come into play.
So the bugs get the -4 to cc, as per the pg112 rules that apply to the gaim ships. But the whole fleet has its init reduced to -3, as per the pg5 mixed league rules.
At least thats how it seems to me.
mollari_uk
Mongoose
I hope the league (and ISA) ally rules are being clarified in P&P. This is the reason we aren't allowing the League for our Tourney. We didn't want rules problems for our first one.
mollari_uk
Mongoose
Aye I know but we can but try to mitigate them.
The problem with the league rules is the book says one thing, Matt has hinted at another but there's been no official ruling on what does and doesn't apply.
The problem with the league rules is the book says one thing, Matt has hinted at another but there's been no official ruling on what does and doesn't apply.
mollari_uk
Mongoose
I've just realised I cheated on a test game of the tourney! I took 5 Vorlon transports! Nevermind! 
Yes, we could have house ruled it but it was easier to say no league. With the low level of the game it shouldn't be a problem for people to form a fleet even if they normally play league.
Anyway, I'm highjacking the thread! Hopefully the allies rule will be clarified in P&P.
Yes, we could have house ruled it but it was easier to say no league. With the low level of the game it shouldn't be a problem for people to form a fleet even if they normally play league.
Anyway, I'm highjacking the thread! Hopefully the allies rule will be clarified in P&P.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Banichi said:
Since the Queens and Protect the Queens rules do not apply to the Gaim in a League fleet, the Gaim initiative will not drop.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
CZuschlag said:
No it isn't - from the combined League rules:
Regards,
Dave
