Armies of the Fifth Frontier War, Impressions Not Errata

[Sigtrygg]

That's a little misleading, if you don't know the game. The Imperial Army *is* on the board at the start of the game/war. It just isn't a very large force compared to what appears later in the game (after 10 weeks delay) as reinforcements from elsewhere.

You are replying to a post in isolation despite the previous posts I have made in this thread. I am not going to repeat myself in every post.

In previous posts I mentioned the limited regular army deployment, and then expanded do identify the corps on Efate, the four regular brigades and four regular regiments that are deployed at the start.

Although we can't ask the designers, it appears from the published setup that their concept was that in peacetime the Imperial Army has a relatively thin forward presence in the Marches around Regina, amounting to a single Corps on Efate fighting the Ine Givar insurgency, and 4 brigades and 4 regiments scattered on other worlds.

The corps on Efate was moved there during the build up to the FFW and could be followed from TAS News bulletins and rumours in A:1. The situation on Efate grew such that they had to deploy a regular Army corps. The fact that the other regular units on board at the start, 4 brigades and 4 regiments, could indicate that regular Army regiments are deployed as regiments and brigades for garrison, and are combined to form corps and field armies. That 1c corps could be the amalgamation of 20 regiments, which means 20 regiments garrisoned on worlds within the Marches, or more likely in my opinion they are garrisoned in Deneb.

(The Imperial Marines have 8 regiments deployed. They're not Army though.

Which is why I didn't mention them, there are also the duke of regina's huscarls.

The Duke of Regina has his Huscarles regiment (6 battalions strong in 1105). But this is not a regular Army or Marine unit.)

I should read ahead.

The bulk of the troops available to Imperial commanders in peacetime are colonial units and PDFs.

And mercenaries...

They are equipped to the TL of their homeworld.
There are also a number of mercenary units scattered about, e.g. a division of mercenaries has been employed by the Imperium on Efate to fight the Ine Givar. (arguably, the most important single unit in the game is a tiny elite TL16 mercenary unit

must read ahead...
Once I would have said Darrian mercs, but in light of more modern developments Vincennes makes a lot more sense.

(Darrians? from Vincennes??) which the Imperial player, if he is clever, can deploy at a particular point and taking advantage of the tech level difference can effectively stymie the entire Sword Worlds war effort)
View attachment 5664

The Sword World fleets can just plot to avoid them, the Zhodani getting to see how the Imperials deploy is another great advantage.

One other thing worthy of mention is how the Imperial Army is deployed to battle, 1 assault squadron is needed to transport either a 1c corps, 5c field army, up to a capacity of 6c. Eventually the Imperium has 8 assault squadrons available to facilitate their movement.

BatRons can carry up to a division per BatRon.

It very much appears that the IA rely on the IN for transport and logistics... at least at the granularity level of the boardgame.

 

[collins355]

You are replying to a post in isolation despite the previous posts I have made in this thread. I am not going to repeat myself in every post.

In previous posts I mentioned the limited regular army deployment, and then expanded do identify the corps on Efate, the four regular brigades and four regular regiments that are deployed at the start.

Apologies. I'm glad we're in agreement that there is an Imperial Army deployed in peacetime in the Marches around Regina.

The Sword World fleets can just plot to avoid them, the Zhodani getting to see how the Imperials deploy is another great advantage.

Actually they can't - but would love to play you at FFW to demonstrate.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Apologies. I'm glad we're in agreement that there is an Imperial Army deployed in peacetime in the Marches around Regina.

I think we a agree on most things to be honest.

Actually they can't - but would love to play you at FFW to demonstrate.

As would I lol, it has been too long since the last time I played it.

I am intrigued, where would you put them so the Sword Worlds fleet have to attack the world with them on - or would you send them on a cruiser fleet to stomp the Sword Worlds flat - 5 to 6 column shifts makes a big difference.

I don't remember ever winning a game playing Imperial, I was defeated a couple of times as the Zhodani, but my Zhodani victories were higher than Imperial. After a few games the end was usually a stalemate. Bringing the optional rules into the game stirred the pot for a bit, but I haven;t played a game of it for decades now.

Would have loved a Mongoose version.

 

[steelbrok]

Would have loved a Mongoose version.

That would be good.

 

[collins355]

I am intrigued, where would you put them so the Sword Worlds fleet have to attack the world with them on - or would you send them on a cruiser fleet to stomp the Sword Worlds flat - 5 to 6 column shifts makes a big difference.

I don't remember ever winning a game playing Imperial, I was defeated a couple of times as the Zhodani, but my Zhodani victories were higher than Imperial. After a few games the end was usually a stalemate. Bringing the optional rules into the game stirred the pot for a bit, but I haven;t played a game of it for decades now.

Would have loved a Mongoose version.

You can do either with the 1-16 merc battalion at your discretion - the TL combat modifiers are such that they're murder on the poor Swordies (also another reason why MJD's TL12 Imperial Army is utterly crazy BTW).

Playing as the Imperial you have lots of options - my bias is for an "active defence" as the Chinese would say. So I prefer to send my best cruiser Rons off into the Neutral Zone ASAP and then into Zhodani space loaded up with the elite Duke of Regina's Huscarles/Imperial Marines and a good Admiral with a very low planning factor. That option usually doesn't leave much for a subsidiary theatre like the Swordies, who can be boxed in just by deploying the 1-16 battalion judiciously on a particular world, saving resources to use against the Zho.

Raiding is such fun, causes the Zho no end of distraction (and would make a great roleplaying campaign - I can't understand why Mongoose didn't use the idea as the basis for a series of adventures or a campaign in the FFW setting! They already have many of the ingredients in the "Naval Campaign" boxset they published)

I usually use the Assault Ron at Efate to scoop up the best ground units that start the game there and head off somewhere else as well, before the Zho fleets box you in.

Get the Duke of Regina off Regina as fast as possible. His zero planning factor is GOLD! And, if you play the optional rules, the Imperial Warrant can be useful.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I like it.

The Julian Gambit - get into the rear and cause havoc.

Bit naughty of the Impies to annex neutral worlds but hey ho

(just the sort of thing an evil empire would do...)

 

[boggo2300]

You can do either with the 1-16 merc battalion at your discretion - the TL combat modifiers are such that they're murder on the poor Swordies (also another reason why MJD's TL12 Imperial Army is utterly crazy BTW).

Playing as the Imperial you have lots of options - my bias is for an "active defence" as the Chinese would say. So I prefer to send my best cruiser Rons off into the Neutral Zone ASAP and then into Zhodani space loaded up with the elite Duke of Regina's Huscarles/Imperial Marines and a good Admiral with a very low planning factor. That option usually doesn't leave much for a subsidiary theatre like the Swordies, who can be boxed in just by deploying the 1-16 battalion judiciously on a particular world, saving resources to use against the Zho.

Raiding is such fun, causes the Zho no end of distraction (and would make a great roleplaying campaign - I can't understand why Mongoose didn't use the idea as the basis for a series of adventures or a campaign in the FFW setting! They already have many of the ingredients in the "Naval Campaign" boxset they published)

I usually use the Assault Ron at Efate to scoop up the best ground units that start the game there and head off somewhere else as well, before the Zho fleets box you in.

Get the Duke of Regina off Regina as fast as possible. His zero planning factor is GOLD! And, if you play the optional rules, the Imperial Warrant can be useful.

Norris OP from the get go!

 

[MongooseMatt]

Raiding is such fun, causes the Zho no end of distraction (and would make a great roleplaying campaign - I can't understand why Mongoose didn't use the idea as the basis for a series of adventures or a campaign in the FFW setting! They already have many of the ingredients in the "Naval Campaign" boxset they published)

Planned from the very outset - it is coming

 

[actionman]

Another thing I loved in the book was the addition of the 'Flying Mall'.
I've been places where I was almost willing to kill somebody I know for a cold soda [and it didn't matter what kind of soda] so the idea of a battalion of grav-trucks dedicated to going out into the boonies and selling troops the little extras that make life worth living while they're deployed is something close to genius

View attachment 5520

Ajima mini trucks. Ajima always knew where our site would be before we did.

 

[actionman]

Bingo. Iconic Marine Battle dress is iconic, and we will never be deviating far from that.

Army guys get a different design, and you can be sure we will be returning to Battle dress in the not too distant future.

The big problem was always 'lack of chonk'. We don't want to go silly but battle dress needs... a certain something above and beyond Combat Armour, which is what a lot of battle dress in the past ended up looking like. Kind of like the difference between power armour and Terminator armour in 40k (but with less shoulder and fewer skulls).

We have been discussing this with Marc, and will continue to explore...

The issue with the wedge-shaped protrusion on the back of the battledress helmet is that it prevents the soldier from bending his head and neck backward. When he is prone, he can't look up to see forward. He can't carry a rucksack or gear that protrudes above his shoulders because it would block the movement of the helmet protrusion when he turns his head.

Example:

1980's U.S. Army helmet.



Current U.S. Army helmet, Enhanced Combat Helmet, ECH.



It covers a bit less of the rear head, his neck, and his ear, to give him space to move his head while prone and while wearing gear on his back.

 

[MasterGwydion]

The issue with the wedge-shaped protrusion on the back of the battledress helmet is that it prevents the soldier from bending his head and neck backward. When he is prone, he can't look up to see forward. He can't carry a rucksack or gear that protrudes above his shoulders because it would block the movement of the helmet protrusion when he turns his head.

Example:

1980's U.S. Army helmet.

View attachment 5693

Current U.S. Army helmet, Enhanced Combat Helmet, ECH.

View attachment 5694

It covers a bit less of the rear head, his neck, and his ear, to give him space to move his head while prone and while wearing gear on his back.

View attachment 5695

Who says you have to move your head to look up in Battledress? It could just change the display in front of your eyes to show you what is "up" Agreed on the limiting of the equipment that can be attached to the armor's back.

 

[collins355]

I'm sure at least one illustrator in canon way back when had the wedge shaped protrusion unclippable so it could be folded upwards. Not sure if that would solve the problem of bending your neck when prone but it wasn't a bad idea.

 

[actionman]

Who says you have to move your head to look up in Battledress? It could just change the display in front of your eyes to show you what is "up" Agreed on the limiting of the equipment that can be attached to the armor's back.

It would depend where the sensors are located. Troops might not want their visors/faceplates scratched up or covered in mud. But it's just an illustration, like how the classic illustration of the scout/courier has maneuver drive exhaust ports. It doesn't matter.

 

[collins355]

Much more important, IMHO, that your highly expensive Battle Dress has a built-in point defence system (against drones, loitering munitions, etc) like this chap from T4 Emperor's Arsenal:

 

[Perkanis83]

Well had a read through of the planet mongoose article and while yes a lot of it is true I still ponder why the imperium did not equip its army to actual TL 12 levels instead of holding them back with TL 10 weapons.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Just read through it...
utter rubbish.

The regular Imperial Army is tasked with fighting near peer adversaries - the Zhodani, the Solomani, possible the odd Aslan incursion, Vargr raiders, and most importantly rebellious nobility.

The author needs to go back and read through Traveller canon and concentrate again what it states in LBB:4 Mercenary.

Disputes between member worlds on the frontier are often settled by local forces with Imperial oversight, the Imperium will even fund mercenary forces rather than commit regular Imperial Army forces.

The regular Imperial Army at the start of the FFW is only committed to a couple of ongoing conflicts within the Marches, the vast bulk is "off board" so to speak.

Planets have their own armies in many cases. Some planets provide troops that can be deployed via Imperialisation, the colonial troop counters, there are the mercenary units, and then the subsector dukes own huscarls.

The Imperial Army is equipped to TL15, these are the forces that are brought to the battlefield only when absolutely necessary.

Let's look at Efate, we learn there is a minor rebellion in that end of the subsector - there are other worlds involved - but local forces are dealing with it.
Then we learn that the Imperium, the subsector government, is hiring mercenaries because the local forces are struggling. When that fails then the Imperial Army is brought to the conflict.

Note also that the Imperial Army relies upon the IN for transport, BatRons and Assault Squadrons are necessary to move the large troop formations, their equipment and their "tail".

I don't consider the Mongoose treatment of the Imperial Army to be at all in keeping with the setting as it has been described for nearly fifty years. Nor do I think ther excuses for low TL equipment make sense in their own setting.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Well had a read through of the planet mongoose article and while yes a lot of it is true I still ponder why the imperium did not equip its army to actual TL 12 levels instead of holding them back with TL 10 weapons.

I am still trying to figure out why after having TL-15 technology for over 300 years on Vincennes and over 100 years for the rest of the Imperium they are still using equipment hundreds to thousands of years out of date. TL-12 is 3 TLs behind and TL10 is 5 TLs behind. Can you imagine the US army fighting with TL-2 weapons and armor? No planes, only wind powered oceangoing vessels? Hell, modern American civilians in the 21st century are better equipped than a TL-2 army.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Just read through it...
utter rubbish.

The regular Imperial Army is tasked with fighting near peer adversaries - the Zhodani, the Solomani, possible the odd Aslan incursion, Vargr raiders, and most importantly rebellious nobility.

The author needs to go back and read through Traveller canon and concentrate again what it states in LBB:4 Mercenary.

Disputes between member worlds on the frontier are often settled by local forces with Imperial oversight, the Imperium will even fund mercenary forces rather than commit regular Imperial Army forces.

The regular Imperial Army at the start of the FFW is only committed to a couple of ongoing conflicts within the Marches, the vast bulk is "off board" so to speak.

Planets have their own armies in many cases. Some planets provide troops that can be deployed via Imperialisation, the colonial troop counters, there are the mercenary units, and then the subsector dukes own huscarls.

The Imperial Army is equipped to TL15, these are the forces that are brought to the battlefield only when absolutely necessary.

Let's look at Efate, we learn there is a minor rebellion in that end of the subsector - there are other worlds involved - but local forces are dealing with it.
Then we learn that the Imperium, the subsector government, is hiring mercenaries because the local forces are struggling. When that fails then the Imperial Army is brought to the conflict.

Note also that the Imperial Army relies upon the IN for transport, BatRons and Assault Squadrons are necessary to move the large troop formations, their equipment and their "tail".

I don't consider the Mongoose treatment of the Imperial Army to be at all in keeping with the setting as it has been described for nearly fifty years. Nor do I think ther excuses for low TL equipment make sense in their own setting.

I think the problem is that we have so diluted what the term "Tech Level" means that even the writers no longer know what it means.