Knowledge (local)
- Thread starter René
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slaughterj
Mongoose
At first glance, it seems it would be "local" to your original region, but then you'd have to buy it everywhere, or have to do an increasing DC setup like mentioned. But if you didn't want to emasculate it too much, e.g., by requiring it to be bought for everywhere, you could make it work for anywhere one is at, representing casual info they have picked up since being in the area. But if you take that route, be sure to keep it distinguished from Gather Information, e.g., make the Knowledge check for general information, but have Gather Information be used to give specific useful information.
geordiekimbo
Mongoose
I think I'd specify it to a particular area of a country, one that the character is most familiar to. Such as a province o a geographical location such as a particular river, mountain or valley. Something in the region of around 50 miles2/size] would seem about reasonable.
However I think I remember DC Heroes did a skill called area knowledge which made the information you knew about the area dependent on the size of the area you choose for the skill. For example a character who picked a small area such as a street would be intimately familiar with minor things there (new road signs, neighbour changed the curtains) whereas a character with an area knowledge of a city would be able to name streets on a average skill roll, or remember where road works were placed next month, similarly a character who picked area knowledge of a continent, might be able to name particular cities or mountain ranges on an average skill roll. This kind of skill made the information gathered in relation to the degree of specialisation gained. Making a Conan RPG skill the same way would probably require quite a lot of number crunching and a particularly in depth skill description..It might work for some GM's and Players and be hated and ignored by others.
However I think I remember DC Heroes did a skill called area knowledge which made the information you knew about the area dependent on the size of the area you choose for the skill. For example a character who picked a small area such as a street would be intimately familiar with minor things there (new road signs, neighbour changed the curtains) whereas a character with an area knowledge of a city would be able to name streets on a average skill roll, or remember where road works were placed next month, similarly a character who picked area knowledge of a continent, might be able to name particular cities or mountain ranges on an average skill roll. This kind of skill made the information gathered in relation to the degree of specialisation gained. Making a Conan RPG skill the same way would probably require quite a lot of number crunching and a particularly in depth skill description..It might work for some GM's and Players and be hated and ignored by others.
High Lord Dee
Mongoose
We run it so that it would be Knowledge(Poitain), Knowledge(Shadizar), etc. The DM can use discretion for how many ranks can be rewarded at the end of the adventure or each session. We also use this for race and even perhaps for key monster types that the characters may be facing over the period of a campaign.
I think this and many other skills can really add flavor to a character. I refuse to make the characters select these skills since most seasoned players will take more useful survival or class skills. These types of skills are awarded for actual play in the particular geographical region.
Once problem that I have found is that you quickly outgrow any pre-gen character sheet so I would recommend tracking on a seperate sheet. Anyways, that is how we run it.
HLD
I think this and many other skills can really add flavor to a character. I refuse to make the characters select these skills since most seasoned players will take more useful survival or class skills. These types of skills are awarded for actual play in the particular geographical region.
Once problem that I have found is that you quickly outgrow any pre-gen character sheet so I would recommend tracking on a seperate sheet. Anyways, that is how we run it.
HLD
The skill doesn't specify because different campaigns can have different scales. For a campaign that takes place entierly in the Westermark Kn[local: conoraja] would be appropriate. For a globe-trotting campaign kn[local: Aquilonia] could work.
It is even concevable that, as slaughterj mentioned, you could have it work for every location all in one skill. Certainly nothing in the skill description prohibits this. In fact, if you want the skill to be usefull for something more than background fluff (where every character has two ranks of kn[local: my home town] and nobody ever rolls a kn[local] check) then that is arguably the best way to intrepret the skill. After all, the Knolwedge skills are already considered less-than-optimal as it is.
Later.
It is even concevable that, as slaughterj mentioned, you could have it work for every location all in one skill. Certainly nothing in the skill description prohibits this. In fact, if you want the skill to be usefull for something more than background fluff (where every character has two ranks of kn[local: my home town] and nobody ever rolls a kn[local] check) then that is arguably the best way to intrepret the skill. After all, the Knolwedge skills are already considered less-than-optimal as it is.
Later.
slaughterj
Mongoose
High Lord Dee said:
Sounds interesting, though doesn't fit the rules for how skill points are acquired - it seems that if people aren't buying it with the points available, then the skill isn't useful enough, so I suggest my approach above as an alternative.
slaughterj
Mongoose
argo said:
Exactly. You can interpret it a few ways, with the following results:
1. It is only for the area for which you buy it. But if that's the case, you will get limited use out of it and people won't buy it. Further, if it is for only the area for which you buy it, then why isn't geography, history, or nature similarly limited?
2. It is for any area you are in. This makes it more useful, and interesting to buy. You might have concerns about people knowing stuff in a new area, but you can just assign a -5 penalty until someone is somewhere for a couple of days and has picked up the local customs and "lay of the land" so to speak. This can be distinguished from Gather Information which will give you specific details about newsworthy matters, by having the Knowledge skill give you general laws in the area, general inhabitants, general legends, etc. but not who is sleeping with who, who just killed who, etc. etc.
High Lord Dee
Mongoose
slaughterj said:
The key reason for not forcing characters to buy Knowledge skills is that most seasoned players will use up their valuable skill points on things like ride, swim, spot, listen, tumble, escape artist, etc. Things that can actually kill you if you fail your check. Most characters do not die if they make a failed knowledge check. That has been my experiences at least.
It does fit the rules for how the skills are USED, just not how they are GAINED. If you are going to only allow knowledge to be purchased with skill points, then I would suggest that you use the above suggestion of only having Knowledge(local). Then, maybe characters will prioritize it. I use a similar approach to language as well.
There is an additional benefit of the system that I described. Most players want to walk away from a session feeling like they have gained something. Often times, adventures can last multiple sessions. In a low magic world like Conan, gaining a new skill or a rank in language gives them (and myself when I am a player) a sense of accomplishment.
I am considering tying in INT into who gains what as well to further improve the system. Up to now, it has been more of a DM awareness but I amy actually develop a procedure.
How much Knowledge (local) do you give out in a session High Lord?
I think that's a very good idea you have there. I have never seen anyone, in all the D20 games I've played, spend points on Knowledge (local).
I was thinking maybe for each level gained granting 1 rank in the region where the majority of that time was spent.
For example: my player just reached 4th level, spending most of that time in Brythunia, so that would equal 3 ranks Knowledge (local/Brythunia). If they spent their next 2 levels in Shadizar, that would then give them 2 ranks in Knowledge (local/Shadizar).
I think that's a very good idea you have there. I have never seen anyone, in all the D20 games I've played, spend points on Knowledge (local).
I was thinking maybe for each level gained granting 1 rank in the region where the majority of that time was spent.
For example: my player just reached 4th level, spending most of that time in Brythunia, so that would equal 3 ranks Knowledge (local/Brythunia). If they spent their next 2 levels in Shadizar, that would then give them 2 ranks in Knowledge (local/Shadizar).
High Lord Dee
Mongoose
urdinaran said:
Well, thank you Urdinaran. In our current campaign, which is a Midnight campaign, the party is ninth level. We started out at first. The party has been granted 3 different Knowledge local skill categories for 3 skills each so it does seem to be tracking 1/level. The other skill is Knowledge(Culture) which we use for certain types of races. This would be Knowledge(Cimmerian), Knowledge(Pict), etc. and those have ranged between 3 and 5 ranks. The challenge is that a rank 3 or even 5 may not be enough for some of the skill checks. Here are some of the factors that I am thinking about adding to the random distribution:
Time "in-country" for the character (probably in months)
Intelligence score for the character
Setting - Urban versus Rural
Class bonus - A thief should be able to gain knowledge(local) in Zamora faster than a barbarian but a barbarian should be able to gain knowledge(local) faster in the frozen northland cities.
I am going to play around with this a bit to see what sticks. Feel free to add any other factors that I may have overlooked?
Hi, when we started playing Conan I had characters specify a region when using Knowledge:Local. However, two of my D&D GMs pointed out (in those games) that you don't write down Knowledge:Religion (Lawful Good) for example. If you have Knowledge:Religion, it works with ANY regligion. Also Knowledge:Nature isn't broken down into Nature (Mammals), (Temperate biospheres), etc., it's just Knowledge:Nature, and by their reasoning Knowledge:Local is simply the generic value based on ranks and modifiers for Knowledge:Local. A GM can give, and of course a player should ask for a positive modifier (+/-2) for circumstances, personages, locality, etc. But the because the skill is written so non-specifically (my writing skills are going to pieces here, sorry), that it is one skill modifier.
What skills do you specifiy by region? Survival, Craft, Perform, Profession. And Knowledge, as in you choose which type of Knowledge (amongst geography, nobility, religion, local, etc., not amongst a 3 mile radius!!) I hope this helps. I had never thought of it this way until this summer, now I'm convinced of it. I hope this may help you all too!
What skills do you specifiy by region? Survival, Craft, Perform, Profession. And Knowledge, as in you choose which type of Knowledge (amongst geography, nobility, religion, local, etc., not amongst a 3 mile radius!!) I hope this helps. I had never thought of it this way until this summer, now I'm convinced of it. I hope this may help you all too!
Well, if you're gonna have it as non-location specific, how about having them spend a certain amout of time getting the "lay of the land" when they arrive in a new region/city?
Say for example, the players arrive in Shadizar, for every week spent there they may use 1 of their ranks in Knowledge (local) on appropriate checks; so, spending a month in Shadizar a player could use up to 4 ranks, up to their max, if they had that many.
Say for example, the players arrive in Shadizar, for every week spent there they may use 1 of their ranks in Knowledge (local) on appropriate checks; so, spending a month in Shadizar a player could use up to 4 ranks, up to their max, if they had that many.
Well, sure you can do whatever you want. Your description is kinda like how a character's Reputation spreads. I just got the idea (after the guys spoke about it) that that's how it was written, just, like all things OGL, written poorly. The skill description in the core book is almost word-for-word what's written in the D&D 3.5 Player's Handbook, only they took out a couple of deedle spells in the Knowledge description.
What I was suggesting was giving a +/- 2 circumstance modifier depending on the characters' familiarity with their locale. A 4 point variable is easier to spin and less rules cumbersome than re-aligning the ranks/weeks/distance idea. Then again, Im a fan of Keep It Simple Stupid. :wink:
What I was suggesting was giving a +/- 2 circumstance modifier depending on the characters' familiarity with their locale. A 4 point variable is easier to spin and less rules cumbersome than re-aligning the ranks/weeks/distance idea. Then again, Im a fan of Keep It Simple Stupid. :wink:
slaughterj
Mongoose
Bregales said:
Exactly, I'm not going to go through a bunch of effort, you've been there before or for a little time, get your roll, just walked in after crossing the desert, get your roll at -5 (i.e., may have still heard some stuff about the location before you got there).
slaughterj
Mongoose
High Lord Dee said:
A failed Knowledge (local) skill roll can kill you if you fail to know something is against the law and punishable by death in the area you are in, and then you get punished for it. A Ride roll often won't kill you, as with many of the other skills you cite. It really comes down to the GM's emphasis in games - e.g., I never see anyone but spellcasters buying Concentrate. If the GM doesn't make it important, the PCs won't buy it. Sure, a few skills stand out, e.g., Listen, Spot, etc., because those will always be useful, regardless of GM emphasis, but there are not too many of those skills.
High Lord Dee said:
That is a fundamental problem with level-based systems, thus my preference for point-based systems, where you can award a point or two to spend on a character after the session. For many years I have run Fantasy Hero in various settings (e.g., Lankhmar), and would award character points to be spent on the characters, and sometimes would award specific points, e.g., to a knowledge picked up, to a contacts perk, etc. Knowledge makes the most sense to pick up in this fashion, but other things might make sense as well, but it depends on how much you want to modify the game system.
Sounds fair enough. As the skill description says that it's a combination of different effects, Knowledge:Local in some ways overlaps with Gather Information. I think if you're new in an area you'd use Gather Information, but if you have some familiarity about the place you'd use Knowledge:Local. [Edit: The skills it seems to me can overlap for any roll]. From what little I could find, it would seem that the Knowledge skill is not only about what you already know about a place, but about HOW to discern things about a people, from folklore to peoples to an address, to knowing about the Grendel eating vikings over at yonder Asgardian village.
