Killshot: Evolution and other Wave 1 preview questions

[Xorrandor]

OK, now that I've gotten time to actually read these things a bit, I've got a few questions/concerns (beyond the edits I made in my transcripts).

First and most important: killshot. Several weapons that used to be killshot are now "Ignore the results of any Armour rolls". Including the baby nuke, which is currently unlikely to kill either a Fenirs or a Tanker. I would accept this as a general toning down of weapon lethality, except the Eapt blaster cannon maintains the old language, counting targets as kills.

Other, smaller issues:
* LAMI are the only group paying more for their squad than straight addition would imply. Different command structure? Atomic protocols? Typo?
* Tunnelling: "...add a cumulative +1 bonus to this roll for every turn after the second in which you roll." This might be a difference between English and American, but that implies to me that you roll a 5+ on Turn 2, a 5+ on Turn 3, a 4+ on Turn 4, and so forth. Is this the intent? If it's supposed to go 5+, 4+, 3+, then I would lose the final "in which you roll".
* Firestorm blast damage: is "first damage dice" determined before you roll the dice, or before they are allocated? In the first case you have a 10% chance of losing your blast damage, in the second case it drops to 1% (double 1's).

 

[Kenrick Dargoth]

2)English is foreign language to me but I don't see a problem it's 5/4/3..

 

[Major Chaos]

To me tunneling reads 5+ turn 1, 5+ turn 2, 4+ turn 3, 3+ turn 4 etc... That is how we will play it here until we find out for sure. It also reads like the +1 bonus is optional if you chose.

 

[Poko]

i agree with Dargoth, it's 5+ on the second turn,and then 4+/3+etc.(or 5+ till the moment you want to go up,handy 8) )
reasoning beghind this? you add =1 to the roll for each turn after the second(second game turn,not second turn of rolling!)turn ,and third turn is definetly after the second :wink:

 

[Major Chaos]

You are correct. I know I had noticed that before.....

 

[Xorrandor]

I just have trouble parsing the language of the rule to go 5+, 4+, 3+. I don't have a problem with saying that's what the rule should say, but it's not what it says now. Commas are definitely in order, or the final clause should just be omitted if it's superfluous.

So no one has a problem with the Fenirs and Tanker shrugging off nukes?

 

[cordas]

So no one has a problem with the Fenirs and Tanker shrugging off nukes?

I would, if my Grizzlies could still use nukes *SIGH*, I am also upset that they seem to be lead footed now..... Oh well. Mind you I like the fact that they now just shrug off that 1st hit rather than being crippled by it and the fact that they are immune to suppresion gives them a really nice feel.

Hoping to have some more games soon.

 

[Iain McGhee]

The mini-nuke does 3xD10+4 and ignores armour saves right ?

I'd take that to mean that a kill score on a Tanker would actually kill it outright as the weapon would ignore any armour save, negating the 5 kills you would normally need with a Javelin or something. Even if I'm misinterpreting the rule you could still get 3 kill scores with one shot which would destroy it outright.

Perhaps the LAMI squad Sergeant costs 20pts which would account for the cost of the squad.

I'd think that you roll as normal for shoot actions with the Firestorm and you pick targets as normal on hits with the closest model being the one you take as having the first damage dice allocated to if any hit.

 

[human_target]

I stated it before, a PeeWee isn't as effective as it used to be.
It should still be able to take out a Tanker methinks.

Did a game on friday night where a Thorny Tanker was plowing through my LAMI (at least here I have to thank the person(s) responsible for the 1 reaction rule in SST: evo, cause in the masses of LAMI a Thorny Tanker can be horribly usefull).
A Flamberge with atomic payload landed right on its center point.
No more Thorny Tanker (though it did wipe out a full squad of LAMI and the LT.

I'm surprised no one thought of putting up a poll to see if they should lose the traits or not.

s

 

[Poko]

It should still be able to take out a Tanker methinks.

i still is.
tanker has 6 hits,with kills counting as 2xhits.
it has 12+kill value,and can't take cover.
piwii rolls 3xd10+4. it needs to roll 8+ three times. hard,but not impossible :wink:

 

[human_target]

Well, it's probably just me, but sending a nuke on a Tanker shouldn't be 'hard' to kill it.

Maybe I'm one of the few, but I would have accepted the Kill-roll as it is used in BF: evo.

If you kill it, it should just roll over and stay dead.

But as this is not the case in SST: evo, I still think a PeeWee lost in power.

For the rest, I think it's shaping up properly and I'm looking forward to it.

s

 

[Poko]

But as this is not the case in SST: evo, I still think a PeeWee lost in power.

agreed, after all even the range of the template is smaller.but the real question is: is it bad:?:

If you kill it, it should just roll over and stay dead.

you'r one of thepeople who don't like zombie-movies? :wink:

 

[human_target]

hmmm, Zombie Tanker?

While I do like some hacking and slashing, I rather wouldn't have it face my LAMI, or PAMI or Exos, ...

s

 

[tneva82]

Maybe I'm one of the few, but I would have accepted the Kill-roll as it is used in BF: evo.

Hrrr...Would mean we would have to buy LOT more tankers for them to be usefull as they would then need to come down on points a lot...

250 pts for something that is dead with very little application of firepower(lots of big guns in SST. More than in BF:Evo).

I don't think my wallet could afford all those €€€'s.

 

[cordas]

Hmmm pee wee's should be easily able to kill a tanker, after all they are a one shot weapon that is considerably more expensive than a tanker......

 

[Turtle]

The thing is, the insta kill works for BFE because it's similar to a realistic modern, but not quite realistic.

SST has always been a fantastical science fiction game with weapons that are horrendously effective, and just as nasty targets to use them against.

As such, the game balance leans toward high powered weaponry, but with units that can also survive that weaponry.

It's important to keep the two games separate, even though they use the same core rules, they're still two different games.

 

[Xorrandor]

The mini-nuke does 3xD10+4 and ignores armour saves right ?

I'd take that to mean that a kill score on a Tanker would actually kill it outright as the weapon would ignore any armour save, negating the 5 kills you would normally need with a Javelin or something. Even if I'm misinterpreting the rule you could still get 3 kill scores with one shot which would destroy it outright.

I interpreted ignoring armour saves as ignoring armour saves. Meaning you automatically fail that armour save. Otherwise some pretty wimpy weapons can wipe out a Tanker. The Erstiites Triple Blaster, for example, rolls 3xD6+1 and ignores all Armour rolls; I don't think a single 6 should do more than a single point of damage to the Tanker. I'm wondering if Mongoose should just go ahead and add a "Hits" to the stat-line for SST:Evo. I know it will cause some people GW flashbacks, but it makes some rules much easier to write.

I went ahead and ran the numbers for a Pee-Wee Nuke, as I read the rules anyway:
Fenirs survival rate: 6.4% with old Killshot, Multihit; 35.2% with old Killshot alone; 46% with Wave 1 preview
Tanker survival rate: 10.4% with old Killshot and Multihit; 48.8% with old Killshot alone; 97.3% (!!!) with Wave 1 preview.
I estimated about a 25% chance that a Tanker would survive two nukes, although I didn't do all the math on that one. I realize it's an area weapon, and it should be able to target more than one thing, but it seems a little too wimpy for a nuke at this point. Bringing the old Killshot back would at least help, and since the Eapt Blaster Cannon still has that language we know the option hasn't gone away.

 

[cordas]

If a Pee Wee is unable to instantly kill a Feris or Tanker (easily) then it should NOT be costing considerable more than either.... Its not an issue of how powerfull it is in killing terms, its an issue of whether its worth the points you pay for it.

 

[Galatea]

The Tanker Card sais if it's hit by a kill it will count as two failed armour saves (thus it will loose two hits).

I really don't understand why Mongoose has done the 'hits' in some a strange way.
If they simply get back to hitpoints many problem wouldn't accure any more (like misreading of weapons which ignore armour saves).

And also everyone nows what hits are and can handle them instinctively.
But it causes big confusion to handle those failed armour saves (can get up to ten, if the plasma has it's old stats).

 

[Hiromoon]

Galatea, you can effectively blame the playtest group for that.