Killshot: Evolution and other Wave 1 preview questions

[captainsmirk]

Yeah you need a certain critical mass to achieve fusion or fission, so smaller yields can't actually be attained.

According to the book the Pee-Wee was less the 2KT yield. With an "implosion squeeze" (whatever that is...) to actually allow it to go boom...


Nick

 

[Xorrandor]

Yeah you need a certain critical mass to achieve fusion or fission, so smaller yields can't actually be attained.

According to the book the Pee-Wee was less the 2KT yield. With an "implosion squeeze" (whatever that is...) to actually allow it to go boom...

Well, my nuclear physics is a little rusty, but I thought density entered into the equation as well. So if you can squeeze your uranium/plutonium enough, you can make arbitrarily small explosions; the trick is at some point you need more energy to squeeze the core down than you get from the fission. At that point, don't bother with the nuke, just explode your squeezing energy source and save yourself the trouble.

Fusion is already at this point, unless we're going to start using "cold fusion" or other SF technologies.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

it'd be a simple edit to give nukes a semblance of multihit and/or killshot back - just edit the line about ignoring failed armour saves to say "each hit scored causes a kill effect" and/or "each hit counts as 2 failed armour saves, and each kill counts as 4 failed armour saves against Tough targets"

Agreed. I would consider just adding the language from the Eapt Blaster Cannon, myself, which is why I included that option in my odds calculations above. It basically duplicates the old Killshot (without Multihit), which gives survival rates that are better than the old rules, but not ludicrously high either.

IIRC the blaster just ignores armour rolls - this isn't the same as a kill result, it's basically doing one point of damage to the target per hit.

 

[Xorrandor]

IIRC the blaster just ignores armour rolls - this isn't the same as a kill result, it's basically doing one point of damage to the target per hit.

YDNRC .

Eapt Blaster Cannon: Optional upgrade. All Damage Dice that roll the Target score of a model will be counted as having rolled the Kill score instead. This weapon may only fire once per turn and never as a reaction.

That's the old Killshot rules, not the new ignores armor rules.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

eeeep, nice.

 

[human_target]

sorry, me again, just trying to understand things correctly:

Pee Wee has a 6" radius.
3xD10+4

So if you shoot at a squad or swarm, you can only allocate damage dice to 3 models????


s

 

[Xorrandor]

Pee-Wee Atomic Munition: Optional upgrade. The Longbow has the option of firing a Pee-Wee. A Pee-Wee will roll its Damage Dice against every model within the Fire Zone - these models need not be in Line of Sight. This weapon ignores all Armour rolls. It can affect models in the unit that created its Fire Zone, if they are close enough.

So they affect everything in a 6" radius. They aren't that wimpy...

 

[Rob_A]

sorry, me again, just trying to understand things correctly:

Pee Wee has a 6" radius.
3xD10+4

So if you shoot at a squad or swarm, you can only allocate damage dice to 3 models????


s

3xD10+4 on each model under the template

 

[Greg Smith]

Or drop a pizza upsidedown on the table. Any model with cheese on it is dead.

 

[tneva82]

I was thinking they would have trouble justifying the 300 points spent, regardless of what you call the thing. Are tables really so crowded that you can reliably target 300 points of the enemy with a 6" blast? It seems like cheap swarms wouldn't be worth the price (how many Bugs can actually squeeze in that area?), and expensive models aren't killed outright. That just leaves intermediate-strength models: a valid design target, but hard to plan for that effectively.

But does weapon have to kill equal amount of points to be worth the cost?

The effect quick removal of bunch of models at right point could help swing balance in favour of MI and thus act as sort of a force multiplier.

 

[human_target]

I stand corrected.

Thank you

 

[Iain McGhee]

The mini-nuke does 3xD10+4 and ignores armour saves right ?

I'd take that to mean that a kill score on a Tanker would actually kill it outright as the weapon would ignore any armour save, negating the 5 kills you would normally need with a Javelin or something. Even if I'm misinterpreting the rule you could still get 3 kill scores with one shot which would destroy it outright.

I interpreted ignoring armour saves as ignoring armour saves. Meaning you automatically fail that armour save. Otherwise some pretty wimpy weapons can wipe out a Tanker. The Erstiites Triple Blaster, for example, rolls 3xD6+1 and ignores all Armour rolls; I don't think a single 6 should do more than a single point of damage to the Tanker. I'm wondering if Mongoose should just go ahead and add a "Hits" to the stat-line for SST:Evo. I know it will cause some people GW flashbacks, but it makes some rules much easier to write.

I went ahead and ran the numbers for a Pee-Wee Nuke, as I read the rules anyway:
Fenirs survival rate: 6.4% with old Killshot, Multihit; 35.2% with old Killshot alone; 46% with Wave 1 preview
Tanker survival rate: 10.4% with old Killshot and Multihit; 48.8% with old Killshot alone; 97.3% (!!!) with Wave 1 preview.
I estimated about a 25% chance that a Tanker would survive two nukes, although I didn't do all the math on that one. I realize it's an area weapon, and it should be able to target more than one thing, but it seems a little too wimpy for a nuke at this point. Bringing the old Killshot back would at least help, and since the Eapt Blaster Cannon still has that language we know the option hasn't gone away.

As BF:EVO tanks can be killed by rolling a single Kill score regardless of any saves or traits, at least from any battle reports I've read and several threads on the forums, I thought that Tankers and other large Bugs (or vehicles for that matter) would work the same way. I take your point about "Ignores Armour" though, and on reflection I'd agree with your interpretation.

 

[tneva82]

As BF:EVO tanks can be killed by rolling a single Kill score regardless of any saves or traits, at least from any battle reports I've read and several threads on the forums, I thought that Tankers and other large Bugs (or vehicles for that matter) would work the same way. I take your point about "Ignores Armour" though, and on reflection I'd agree with your interpretation.

They don't. Which can be seen easily from the respective data cards. Check Challenger II data card and tanker data card for example to see what difference there is.

 

[Iain McGhee]

I will. But the SST data cards make my eyes hurt when I try to read them

 

[Xorrandor]

I will. But the SST data cards make my eyes hurt when I try to read them

Me too. So:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26177

 

[Makaiju]

As BF:EVO tanks can be killed by rolling a single Kill score regardless of any saves or traits, at least from any battle reports I've read and several threads on the forums, I thought that Tankers and other large Bugs (or vehicles for that matter) would work the same way....

Since this forum has mostly been a friendly place were people actually try to help and support each other, I thought I would point out a potential question (or view point) that might start coming up in the future.

Gamers are very used to two different gaming systems not being compatible or even comparable.

100 points of Mobile Infentry units might slaughter 100 (0r 500) points of barbarian warriors. Something about CAP armor and auto weapons versus loin cloths and wooden clubs just says the two don't mix.

Mongoose is creating a basic 'minis' rule set that can apply to more then 1 gameing sytem.

It's almost like Mongoose is following the open gaming license things that Wizards did with the D20 system. Only Mongoose didn't stop at "Here are the core rules now figure out model abilities and point costs on your own." In stead they balanced abilitys and costs for different gaming mythos' and even created an extra sets of 'advanced rules' that only applly to a specific gaming worlds.

What I precieve many people doing is assuming that since there is a "core" system, that all games over lap. That 100 points of US marines are equal to 100 points of arachnids. That might even work if you only use the core rules but once you say "advanced", things don't apply any more.

As seen here. A nuke in Battlefield:Evolution is much different then a nuke in Starship Troopers:Evolution. (or at least their effects on different game system models.)