Jump 6 Fleet Courier

[mavikfelna]

The description for the Fleet Courier in High Guard says they switched to Jump 5 from Jump 6 because of the turn-around time for refueling the jump 6 ships, but this really doesn't track. The jump 5 Fleet Courier has a 48 hour turn around time. I built a jump 6 version with a turnaround time that should be under 30 hours. It's also cheaper than the HG version. I admit, I used High Yield scoops to speed up the scooping time, but even without them it still would be under 48 hours turnaround.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The fleet courier has been jump 6 in the Imperium since the 700s, it is baked into the setting that the IN maintains jump 6 communication.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The description for the Fleet Courier in High Guard says they switched to Jump 5 from Jump 6 because of the turn-around time for refueling the jump 6 ships, but this really doesn't track. The jump 5 Fleet Courier has a 48 hour turn around time. I built a jump 6 version with a turnaround time that should be under 30 hours. It's also cheaper than the HG version. I admit, I used High Yield scoops to speed up the scooping time, but even without them it still would be under 48 hours turnaround.

View attachment 6983

I also have a J6 Fleet Courier design in my ship designs. Once I have spare time again, I’ll have to compare them.

I know mine is built at Vincennes and is TL16 and that cuts back on the fuel. It should be able to do a fast turnaround and keep going.

Hermes-Class 400-Ton Fast Fleet Courier

 

[mavikfelna]

The fleet courier has been jump 6 in the Imperium since the 700s, it is baked into the setting that the IN maintains jump 6 communication.

High Guard Update 2022 page 183.
It makes no sense to me, it's right there.

 

[Terry Mixon]

High Guard Update 2022 page 183.
It makes no sense to me, it's right there.

@Sigtrygg is talking about previous editions. Mongoose seems to have changed things.

 

[mavikfelna]

@Sigtrygg is talking about previous editions. Mongoose seems to have changed things.

Yea, I no idea why they did beyond they...have problems with ship designing. There is no other explanation I have for dropping to Jump-5.

 

[Sigtrygg]

High Guard Update 2022 page 183.
It makes no sense to me, it's right there.

Ignore it, it is written by an author that doesn't know the setting well enough, is a mistake, or is another MgT setting retcon - shame they are not bound by canon as MWM said he was. The IN jump 6 fleet courier is rather important in maintaining the Navy's edge... not to mention there is the secret jump 6 intelligence agency network too - or are they going to retcon that as well?

The other explanation is the HG2022 changes to the design rules are so broken they can not reproduce the jump 6 canonical version.

 

[mavikfelna]

Ignore it, it is written by an author that doesn't know the setting well enough, is a mistake, or is another MgT setting retcon - shame they are not bound by canon as MWM said he was. The IN jump 6 fleet courier is rather important in maintaining the Navy's edge... not to mention there is the secret jump 6 intelligence agency network too - or are they going to retcon that as well?

The other explanation is the HG2022 changes to the design rules are so broken they can not reproduce the jump 6 canonical version.

Well, I'm redoing the High Guard ships, so that's why this one got the treatment. And I agree with you, it's too important for the fleet to abandon it. And from the look of things, yes, they're going to retcon it.

Matt has been rather adamant that they aren't bound by canon and changing things in ways they think are better or support that campaign style they want to support. I don't like it, but they own the IP now. And most of what they publish is broadly usable in canon settings and well designed for their campaign style.

 

[collins355]

Is there any evidence that this is a setting change that has been deliberated on and fully considered - i.e. that a case has been made and accepted for it on the basis that it somehow improves the game?

 

[mavikfelna]

Is there any evidence that this is a setting change that has been deliberated on and fully considered - i.e. that a case has been made and accepted for it on the basis that it somehow improves the game?

Not that I can see. But then I doubt most of the changes we're seeing have been considered and deliberated. There is certainly no formal information coming from Mongoose on why they are changing certain things that I am aware of.

 

[Condottiere]

Imperium fleet couriers are canon at four hundred tonnes, and jump factor/six.

It's about the most convenient tonnage for that performance.

Engineering ratios would have to change, to revise it substantially.

 

[mavikfelna]

Imperium fleet couriers are canon at four hundred tonnes, and jump factor/six.

It's about the most convenient tonnage for that performance.

Engineering ratios would have to change, to revise it substantially.

Regardless, the official MgT version is jump-5. I correct that in my design, but it is, alas, unofficial.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I dropped mine to 400 tons to match canon size. Still TL16 and less expensive than the one in High Guard. MCr11 less expensive than the one posted here, too. Winning!

My thoughts on the build presented, in no particular order.

I was able to use the space saved by cutting 10% of the fuel to have staterooms for everyone. On a ship that could be on the move for months, that seems pretty important. I don't believe cabin space would cut it.

I have a pair of sandcasters for defense, so the ship still needs to run from danger, but it might be able to defend itself. I also have M6 rather than M5, so it can run faster.

I have the full military crew, whereas this design cuts the medic and mechanic. I believe in running full crews as defined in the book where possible. Unlike Mongoose, I follow the crewing rules.

This ship has no small craft of its own, but I added a 4-ton runabout of my own design.

No batteries for jump? That's some wasted space, in my opinion.

A light hull on a military vessel? Seems contraindicated. I went with standard.

I don't have offensive weapons, so went with Virtual Gunner/0 rather than /1. Saved MCr4.

Hermes-Class 400-Ton Fast Fleet Courier

 

[mavikfelna]

I dropped mine to 400 tons to match canon size. Still TL16 and less expensive than the one in High Guard. MCr11 less expensive than the one posted here, too. Winning!

My thoughts on the build presented, in no particular order.

I was able to use the space saved by cutting 10% of the fuel to have staterooms for everyone. On a ship that could be on the move for months, that seems pretty important. I don't believe cabin space would cut it.

I have a pair of sandcasters for defense, so the ship still needs to run from danger, but it might be able to defend itself. I also have M6 rather than M5, so it can run faster.

I have the full military crew, whereas this design cuts the medic and mechanic. I believe in running full crews as defined in the book where possible. Unlike Mongoose, I follow the crewing rules.

This ship has no small craft of its own, but I added a 4-ton runabout of my own design.

No batteries for jump? That's some wasted space, in my opinion.

A light hull on a military vessel? Seems contraindicated. I went with standard.

I don't have offensive weapons, so went with Virtual Gunner/0 rather than /1. Saved MCr4.

Hermes-Class 400-Ton Fast Fleet Courier

LOL, I could have saved alot by making similar choices. But there are no general use fleet ships in the current setting at TL16, only experimental designs. And I would drop the tonnage, as a smaller hull makes more sense, but I was following the "official" design parameters. Give me a bit and I'll probably beat your version.

 

[Terry Mixon]

LOL, I could have saved alot by making similar choices. But there are no general use fleet ships in the current setting at TL16, only experimental designs. And I would drop the tonnage, as a smaller hull makes more sense, but I was following the "official" design parameters. Give me a bit and I'll probably beat your version.

Game on! I'll see what I can manage with TL15.

 

[Terry Mixon]

A TL15 version. I had to cut the medic (and the captain's stateroom), but as the crew has an Advanced autodoc along, that should be fine. The runabout is also gone. Otherwise, pretty much the same. Now 12% less expensive than the J5 book version and far more capable.

 

[mavikfelna]

LOL, I could have saved alot by making similar choices. But there are no general use fleet ships in the current setting at TL16, only experimental designs. And I would drop the tonnage, as a smaller hull makes more sense, but I was following the "official" design parameters. Give me a bit and I'll probably beat your version.

Ok, At TL 15, Best I can do is 222,153,625.00 Cr. That's with keeping the pulse lasers, you save 11 MCr dropping those. I could save another 700 KCr by dropping the 2 standard staterooms down to 4 Cabin Space but don't think it's worth it. Dropping the virtual gunner would save another 5 MCr, which is I dropped the two pulse laser turrets there is enough crew slack from the saved drive space I wouldn't need to add crew to man the guns. So the best best I can do is 205,453,625 Cr.

 

[Sigtrygg]

They have changed the design rules which makes it difficult to grandfather the design. The more they complicate and change HG the further from the original OTU it drifts. The powers that be will say that this is intentional, that they can change the setting as they like, but personally I think such changes just highlight the issues and problems.

Forty plus years later High Guard 1980 remains the "gold standard", I would suggest a back to basics and rebuild,

just as a reminder here is the OTU version:

Tonnage : 400 tons standard. 5600 cubic meters.
Crew: 5 (2 officers. 3 ratings)
Passengers: 4
Cargo: 2 tons
Performance: Jump-6. 2-G. Power plant-6. 24 EP. Agility 2.
Electronics: Model/6 computer and extensive data banks.
Hardpoints: Four.
Armament: Two triple laser turrets organized into two batteries.
Two triple missile turrets organized into two batteries.
Defenses: None.
Craft: None.
Fuel Treatment: On board fuel scoops and fuel purification plant.

Note it is m-2, quite why they have gone with m-5 for their retcon design is a bit odd. And why energy efficient, and why bother powering the jump drive and the m-drive for 4 weeks?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Ok, At TL 15, Best I can do is 222,153,625.00 Cr. That's with keeping the pulse lasers, you save 11 MCr dropping those. I could save another 700 KCr by dropping the 2 standard staterooms down to 4 Cabin Space but don't think it's worth it. Dropping the virtual gunner would save another 5 MCr, which is I dropped the two pulse laser turrets there is enough crew slack from the saved drive space I wouldn't need to add crew to man the guns. So the best best I can do is 205,453,625 Cr.

I still don't think cabin space is appropriate for long hauls like this ship does.

CABIN SPACE
Adding cabin space gives the crew more room to move around and to access other components of the ship, such as the engines or cargo bay. However, it does not provide comfortable living space and is generally only used in interplanetary craft where passengers are only expected to be on board for a few hours.

See? Does not provide comfortable living space. Generally used for only a few hours, not week or months.

 

[Terry Mixon]

They have changed the design rules which makes it difficult to grandfather the design. The more they complicate and change HG the further from the original OTU it drifts. The powers that be will say that this is intentional, that they can change the setting as they like, but personally I think such changes just highlight the issues and problems.

Forty plus years later High Guard 1980 remains the "gold standard", I would suggest a back to basics and rebuild,

just as a reminder here is the OTU version:

Tonnage : 400 tons standard. 5600 cubic meters.
Crew: 5 (2 officers. 3 ratings)
Passengers: 4
Cargo: 2 tons
Performance: Jump-6. 2-G. Power plant-6. 24 EP. Agility 2.
Electronics: Model/6 computer and extensive data banks.
Hardpoints: Four.
Armament: Two triple laser turrets organized into two batteries.
Two triple missile turrets organized into two batteries.
Defenses: None.
Craft: None.
Fuel Treatment: On board fuel scoops and fuel purification plant.

Note it is m-2, quite why they have gone with m-5 for their retcon design is a bit odd. And why energy efficient, and why bother powering the jump drive and the m-drive for 4 weeks?

I could drop the M-Drive to 2 but think it works well at 6. I'm not sure I could fit the two triple turrets and missile storage.