[JDMG] Citi-Def Heavy Weapons - Answers Needed

[chaoschild]

Question raised by one of the guys in our campaign...

May be purchased up to 50 Credits of weapon, armour and equipment, or lose all current weapons and be purchased any heavy weapon.

How exactly does this work if you want to field a soldier with a missile launcher? You lose the spit gun and replace it with a missile launcher, but...

1: Do you get a refund on the cost of the spit gun?
2: If you don't, do you have to pay the full cost of the missile launcher?
3: If you don't have to pay for the missile launcher does it come with missiles?
4: If you do have to pay for the missile launcher, are you allowed to buy missiles for it (strict letter of the rules would say no, but that makes no sense)?

What if you want a backup weapon of some kind? Can you spend the 50 credits on other equipment in addition to replacing your spit gun with the heavy weapon?

I'd appreciate some answers ASAP, as our campaign is starting tomorrow night (yet the questions only came up tonight).

 

[Fattdex]

It doesnt imply that you cant pay for a missile launcher with two missiles for example for 50 creds to add to his spit gun, but it does imply that if you wish to spend more than 50 points to buy an expensive heavy weapon, then you have to drop the spit gun. As it is an OR situation between taking additional 50 creds guns and equipment OR drop the spit gun and buy a more expensive heavy weapon, you cant do both.

So if you want a missile launcher with two frag missiles, keep the spit gun and spend 50. If you want to spend 60 creds on a missile launcher and three missiles (Or any other >50 creds heavy weapon of course.), drop the spit gun. Missiles are bought from the heavy weapon section not equipment so if you positively need the third missile it is still valid.

 

[Steve from Oz]

Hi guys, I'm a know-nothing noob but I've been wrestling with the same issue as I'm also fielding Citi-Def. It seems to me that a strict reading of the rules as written says that you can only have a heavy weapon if you lose the spit gun (this is actually a consequence of the encumbrance rules on pg17 of the the main rule book, which state you cannot have both a rifle and a heavy weapon at the same time). The rules also don't allow you to recycle the spit gun's points, but this seems harsh.
My opinion is that the best solution would be a house rule that allows the operator to get a refund on his spit gun and spend this plus the extra 50 on the heavy weapon. I would also allow this total of 100 Credits to be spent on the heavy weapon and any side arms you might want. Not an official solution, but one I hope my regular club opponents will allow as it seems the only way to make sense of the rules.
Wrestling with the issues myself, I wondered if, when any character is listed with a total Credit limit for optional upgrades/weapons, does this apply only when creating the original character, or is it a ceiling for the character's whole career? Taking one of my Citi-Def soldiers as an example, he starts with a total allowance of 50 Credits for extra weapons and equipment. Does this mean he can never have more than 50 Credits worth of extra gear, or only at the start. When I earn extra Creds during a campaign can a later exceed this limit by buying him more upgrades?
Cheers and thanx
Steve from Oz

 

[chaoschild]

Whatever credit limit is listed for a model, that limit applies permanently including any other gear you may buy them. It's not just when you recruit them.

As far as the Citi Def are concerned, I think the following would work.

1: Lower the cost of a trooper to 50 points.
2: A trooper must select one of the following options:

• Spit Gun

• 2 Spit Pistols (plus the Dual Pistol Training talent) for 75 credits

• A heavy weapon, plus ammunition if applicable

3: In addition, a trooper may take up to 50 credits worth of weapons, armour and equipment.

This seems balanced to me, and removes all the ambiguity. Any thoughts?

 

[cfirpi]

I haven't been active in a long time due to life events, but used to be on here quite a bit.

As for refunding the cost of the spitgun. This, mathematically speaking never works. You see many time the points of a unit are balanced according to what is beleived their worth on the battelfiled is. If you try to break down the cost of the Citi-def is a bit higher.
Lets start with an almost equal model (another problem is the almost part)
The desperado has similar stats for 35pts
armor would be another 20pts
Spitgun 50pts
For a total of 105 points, you could say the 5pts and the +1 will are offset by their Trigger Happiness. But think of how deadly trigger happy is with a spitgun. Doesnt seem priced right does it?

So that is my take on the whole refund issue.
Then that brings up the problem of how are you supposed to get a Citidef with H.Spitgun?

I think there should be a list and costs like ML with 3 missiles would be an equal swap since his effective usefullnes is shortened. A HSpitgun +10 etc due to being a menace to the enemy and himself.
Edit due to a realisation.
Or you can just use the rules for exchange on the Citi def Merc on page 28 plus the 50 creds of gear.

 

[Steve from Oz]

cfirpi,
Genius!
I don't think this option was in the previous draft, was it? This is just the gear, especially if combined with the 50 Cred limit for a regular soldier. Most useful given the advice that the Cred limit for upgrades is permanent.
Cheers and thanks to all,
Steve from Oz

 

[Fattdex]

...except you can only carry three missiles

 

[cfirpi]

Like in so many cases I would say model rules override standard rules.

 

[Fattdex]

I would say editor needs a slap

 

[cfirpi]

I would say editor needs a slap

Now, now that is a little harsh . These rules are made by a (im sure) very small team, on top of that they are free and are submitted to the public for enjoyment and perusal. Also this is not their main product line or ahemcashcowAhem.

 

[Fattdex]

A freindly slap, maybe in the butt area.

 

[cfirpi]

A freindly slap, maybe in the butt area.

Now now, now its getting a little wierd, please warn us so we can leave before the "punishments" start. :lol: