Is my Augmented Magrail Pistol Monster Idea RAW for 2e?

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

the combat arms can have a STR of 18 each arm.
manipulators can have STR of 9 each.
soo... yes. not a problem. These are high tech pistols that only weigh 1 kilo loaded.

Reload?: see Hi-Cap Mags on CSC175. fastest way to reload is to not reload. Save reloading for after combat but before weapons detail and rack time.

Breakdown of this example: Magrail normal mag=20 rnds. so 40 if HiCap. Auto rating is 4 so times 3 = 12 rounds per full auto burst. So 3 full auto bursts like this before having to reload. 120D damage per full auto out of all barrels... hmm.... that's 360D damage before I am down to only 4 rounds in each mag... maybe I wont blast all my ammo on every target except those cases where you want to make sure absolutely, positively, that the thing is dead.

The high capacity magazine adds weight (so call it 10 Kg +50% or 15 kg). All the gear (combat arms and cuffs) to let you carry them add weight (all that metal call it another 10 kg total 25 kg) . The arm strength isn't the only strength you need, your legs and back are now carrying about 1/3 your body weight extra mass. Now you are holding all that weight in front of you, during your combat your centre of gravity shifts it is now no longer above your legs you need to brace yourself (which all that recoil will throw off) or you will fall over. You are also very slow moving with all that extra mass, agility now sucks, there goes your Dex modifier if any (it may shift negative).

Also when using TWO weapons you get a DM -2 on each. Using TEN weapons what is your DM -20? Finally it is hard to grapple with your HANDS FULL so drop those two weapons.

Of course in any high law level society you're not allowed off the ship except into a brig with all your power drained as you ARE a weapon. Likely when (if you are allowed to) you leave you will be told DON'T COME BACK. Your ship may be blocked from landing or even refuelling (hope you have a gas giant available). So likely you are restricted to low TL worlds and can't get medical aid due to all the high TL implants. Short life expectancy.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Let me first walk you through this.
Character would have the following augments:
2 combat arms
2 extra manipulators.
Neural Jack with Expert Gun Combat(slug)3 and Intellect

and this equipment
2 hands-free cuffs; one on each arm

10 Magrail Pistols with High Capacity magazines, mounted as follows:
1 on the weapons mount listed for each combat arm: 2
1 in the grip of each manipulator: 2
2 on each hands free cuff: 4
1 in each hand: 2

2+2+4+2=10 total.

Just out of curiosity isn't a combat arm a REPLACEMENT for a normal arm? If so don't you lose a couple of those weapons at least? You wouldn't be a new "spider man" with 8 limbs, 4 original and 4 cybernetic? At most you'd have your 2 legs, 2 combat arms and 2 manipulators and I'd think those cuffs would block your implanted weapons from deploying.

 

[swordtart]

If you do go with the + to Damage instead of separate rolls, don't you run the risk of the attacker getting the ability to overwhelm armor in a way they might not be able to had you allowed all separate attack rolls that each had to have their damage reduced by armor?
Example, target has protection of +20: assuming I can only roll base damage of no higher than 18 and that I can't get an effect greater than 2, I will never penetrate that armor with one magrail pistol, ten MRP's or a thousand MRP's.

But if I do your extra weapons = plus to the attack or damage, now I have a sort of defacto AP quality to my weapon that I would not have had otherwise. What think you this?

There is an argument that many bullets into the same point in quick succession could batter through armour in a way that the same number of bullets spread all over the armour wouldn't.

Often a hit deforms or degrades armour to some degree or other (the energy of impact has to go somewhere). When metal armour defeats an attack it is often dented. That might flatten curved surfaces that would normally deflect a bullet to the point one is now able to strike square on and penetrate. The dissipated energy of multiple strikes might destroy the temper or simply shake it apart. Ceramic armour might chip or shatter, Cloth armour fibres will break or the weave be disrupted. Energy dissipating armour would be overwhelmed and unable to dissipate quickly enough. Straps might break creating small vulnerable areas which a succeeding round might find.

Also you can only damage things so much. If you hit me in the arm it would disable me. If you shot me lots you might destroy the arm completely. There would come a point where further hits to that area were not actually doing more harm, as it is already non-functional or possibly not there anymore.

 

[swordtart]

As a point... you're not actually rolling 12D per pistol, You're rolling to hit four times, without the ability to aim, doing 3D plus effect if you hit.

So at no point do you roll 120D. You have to make four attack rolls for each gun, at a -2 for dual use, unless you've handed over the firing to a computer (in which case your own DEX and skill is not in use). And 12 rounds of ammo expended per gun per round.

I mean, don't get me wrong... moar dakka has its place. But I'm fairly sure you'll get the job done better with simpler solutions. Like a Laser Rifle, or even just a half a dozen goons with Shotguns...

I suspect we are circling back to that shooting with a pistol after a successful grapple argument . If 120D is possible in a ranged attack (if all weapons hit) then it follows that the "free" hit with a pistol that automatically hits would get all 120D.

 

[swordtart]

Robot cuffs. I can make them.

But they are going to cost a lot more than Cr500 per cuff

 

[swordtart]

Let me first walk you through this.
Character would have the following augments:
2 combat arms

These replace your normal arms.

2 extra manipulators.

These are fine manipulators "It is only a few centimetres in circumference but ends in a tiny collapsible claw capable of remarkable manual control." That doesn't read like an extra weapon carrier to me. That said they are supposedly strong and dextrous enough so this might just be the flavour text talking.

Neural Jack with Expert Gun Combat(slug)3 and Intellect

Gun Combat 3 can control one weapon. If you wanted to control 3 weapons you would need to run 3 instances of Gun Combat 1 (and that is the limit of the most advanced neural jack)

and this equipment
2 hands-free cuffs; one on each arm

So those are now on the combat arms. As others have stated just because they are available for use, it does not mean they are all useable at the same time.

10 Magrail Pistols with High Capacity magazines, mounted as follows:
1 on the weapons mount listed for each combat arm: 2

Yep

1 in the grip of each manipulator: 2

Not under my interpretation, but it could be used to reload weapons you are not using.

2 on each hands free cuff: 4

Yes but you choose which one of the three on that arm to use.

1 in each hand: 2

No as the combat arm is a replacement for a normal arm.

2+2+4+2=10 total.

2+0+0+0 = 2 total (of a choice of 6). Each subject to the multiple weapons rule.

(He could maybe use his intellect program with Gun Combat to autonomously fire the manipulators weapons, if he wanted)

I don't think it works that way but you would need to run an instance of gun combat per weapon.

He closes to Melee attack range, rolls a grapple and succeeds. His choice for grapple move is to do full auto with all his weapons into his target.

"Inflict damage using a pistol or small blade sized weapon." So only one pistol (presumably the other arm is being used to hold onto the target).

Magrail pistol is 4 Auto: and 3D damage. or 12D damage for full auto. There are 10 of these so the total dice damage would be 120.

There is one of these so the the total dice damage is at most 12D, but I am not convinced you can use the full auto attack from a grapple.

So, can I roll 120D damage for this attack rules as written?

No.

 

[swordtart]

Plot twist... all of them have Intelligent Weapon installed, with intellect running Gun Combat. My arms and manipulators can be controlled by these systems via my Neural Jack. I instruct them what targets to attack and let them run all their attacks separately. None of the targets have armor and I and they make all the attack rolls. Noooooow can I roll 120D damage?

Expert systems cannot be used by intelligent weapons to conduct DEX based tasks only INT or EDU ones. Your Neural Jack allows you to use expert DEX based skills as it is using your physical body to to the manipulation. Intelligent guns cannot aim or fire themselves, for that you need robot weapons - calling Mr Mixon...

At this point given all the augmentations, maybe you should be thinking of "total body prosthesis".

Alternatively you might be able to get a pair of robot arms with integrated fire control which explicitly allows you to link weapons and fire them as a single action at the same target without penalty. I think you could mount two hand weapons in a size 5 manipulator. 4 can be linked and fired at the same target as a single action with a single fire controller (which can give up to +4 to those attacks). That could be driven by a basic (target) robot brain which gives you Weapon 1 commanded by your neural comm to give total independence - "Robogun, do your thang!".

You could also just use the manipulator as a conventional arm, including holding another couple of handguns. These could be aimed independently of the weapons mounted in the arms (and you would only suffer the multiple weapon penalty if you fire both of them). So that is 5 or 6 guns at full auto and as effective at range (+5 to hit) as in a grapple.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

As a point... you're not actually rolling 12D per pistol, You're rolling to hit four times, without the ability to aim, doing 3D plus effect if you hit.

So at no point do you roll 120D. You have to make four attack rolls for each gun, at a -2 for dual use, unless you've handed over the firing to a computer (in which case your own DEX and skill is not in use). And 12 rounds of ammo expended per gun per round.

I mean, don't get me wrong... moar dakka has its place. But I'm fairly sure you'll get the job done better with simpler solutions. Like a Laser Rifle, or even just a half a dozen goons with Shotguns...

Yes, I am clear on that. When I say 12D per pistol it is a bit of a short-hand. Here is a sample of an actual breakdown of what each of the 4 attack rolls might be:
+4 skill (4 levels of skill is max for a newly created character, and not difficult to achieve in a Marine or Army-Infantry career and Gun Combat)
+1 DM for a DEX 9-11
-2 Dual Weapon Use
+1 P-HUD (aiming is not specified as a requirement with this device)
+1 if at 1.5m or less (yes, close combat)
======
+5 or 3+ to hit with each of the four attempts
+6 or 1+ to hit if tagged using a minor action from a previous round with a Smart Tracker.

If I make all those rolls, and I might, then that's 4x3 dice damage being rolled in sets of 3D each. Sure there is armor subtracted from each set, but what if they are not wearing armor?

Also, in my original example, I was thinking a Grapple then shoot. This breaks down as:
+4 Melee(Unarmed) skill (again, not hard to achieve that as a melee skill either in those same careers)
+1 DM for an STR or DEX of 9-11
-2 for dual weapon (or does it apply if doing melee and a grapple?)
========
+3 to an opposed unarmed attack with the target and giving the -2 dual weapon penalty.
Now, in wining this attack (which if you don't leaves you open to losing an the opponent getting a "free" grapple attack), you can choose to do damage with your pistol. Which if spending ammo at the full auto setting, should give you 12D dice to roll as damage, not 4 separate attack rolls either because you made your attack roll as a grapple.

You could say that damage from a grapple in this manner is only the damage like a single shot, but if there is only one mode of fire you can do this in, there is nothing in RAW that says that one mode must be single shot anymore than it says it must be burst or full auto.

You could also say that of those 12D, the defender still gets to apply an armor/protection reduction to every 3D of damage. This makes sense to me but is not RAW. You could also say one hand or manipulator must be free to achieve the grapple. This makes sense to me as well.

I don't know how I can do the same with a single shot laser rifle that does 5D+3. That would be only about half the damage. better against armor though, but again if no armor and at short range then this is not as good a deal. As for goons with shotguns... sure I guess... I could also just get a marine platoon with FGMP's or nuke the planet or.... or...
... but I am trying to keep it to down to what one character can do with the small arms gear in the books. Not even heavy weapons.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

I would also point out that what we say doesn't matter. If you're the Referee, what you decide is workable, is.

If you're not the Referee, whatever they decide is workable is.

I will never understand why forums and social media posts discussing rules about RPG's always seem to have one or more posts like this. As if someone in the forum is going to say; "What? You mean the GM can decide?" or "Wait a minute, if I am the GM, I can just make a different rule that what is written?"

Thanks rinku, I was afraid the RPG police were about to go pounding on my door if I tried this and I was going to be thrown in the RPG jail... which now that I think about it, maybe I might be thrown into forum-jail if I use to much sarcasm in this forum... um.... soo.... no serously rinku. I appreciate you telling me this. Please don't report me to the mods.

 

[swordtart]

I will never understand why forums and social media posts discussing rules about RPG's always seem to have one or more posts like this. As if someone in the forum is going to say; "What? You mean the GM can decide?" or "Wait a minute, if I am the GM, I can just make a different rule that what is written?"

Thanks rinku, I was afraid the RPG police were about to go pounding on my door if I tried this and I was going to be thrown in the RPG jail... which now that I think about it, maybe I might be thrown into forum-jail if I use to much sarcasm in this forum... um.... soo.... no serously rinku. I appreciate you telling me this. Please don't report me to the mods.

I think we use this as short hand for "Not at my F&^%&^% table"

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

These replace your normal arms.

yes, normal arms that also have hands at the end of them, but also they have weapons mounts. so 2+2

These are fine manipulators "It is only a few centimetres in circumference but ends in a tiny collapsible claw capable of remarkable manual control." That doesn't read like an extra weapon carrier to me. That said they are supposedly strong and dextrous enough so this might just be the flavour text talking.

"remarkable manual control"... and yet the way you hear that, cannot hold and fire a 1kg pistol? Then what exactly is does that STR of 9 and DEX of 15 do for him? That is stronger than the average human and at human max in terms of dexterity. I am leaning toward text flavour unless they specifically state things that it cannot do with those stats. If it is too small to hold the pistol, then it cannot claim the STR9, and if the claw is so simple (as opposed to having remarkable control) that it operates like a claw machine claw, then it cannot claim the DEX15.
I am taking back 2 weapons for this one.

Gun Combat 3 can control one weapon. If you wanted to control 3 weapons you would need to run 3 instances of Gun Combat 1 (and that is the limit of the most advanced neural jack)

yes, done.

So those are now on the combat arms. As others have stated just because they are available for use, it does not mean they are all useable at the same time.

I disputed this as stating you cannot use them at the same time is basically the same as saying you cannot use them. A restriction not mentioned at all in the description of the item... which says you can use them.

Yep

Yep

Not under my interpretation, but it could be used to reload weapons you are not using.

your interpretation is not just an interpretation, it contradicts the entry of the book. It's a house rule. But that's fine.

Yes but you choose which one of the three on that arm to use.

see above

No as the combat arm is a replacement for a normal arm.

This I don't get at all. Are you saying that a combat arm replaces your arm and leaves you with no hand? In my interpretation, you have a combat arm, complete with a hand and to that you have a weapons mount per the description. Effectively another way to use a weapon hands free... free to hold another weapon! However, I will conceded that maybe the mount replaces the hand, but then that is what the weapon implant does.

My thought was that the mount was more like the "Integrated Weapon Mount" on Battle Dress CSC46 described as "For convenience, and to ensure an operator is never without a weapon yet keeps both hands free, battle dress can be constructed with integrated weapons, usually on the back of the arms or shoulders"

The description used for the augment is admittedly lacking, so this BD version of almost the same thing I think captures writer intent better... maybe?

2+0+0+0 = 2 total (of a choice of 6). Each subject to the multiple weapons rule.

I don't think it works that way but you would need to run an instance of gun combat per weapon.

see above.
For ranged attack, my arguments would still show; 2 hands, 2 weapons mounts on arms- hands free, 2 manipulators, 4 hands free cuffs. or 10 total.

"Inflict damage using a pistol or small blade sized weapon." So only one pistol (presumably the other arm is being used to hold onto the target).

This is RAW I admit. "a" pistol or small blade sized weapon.

There is one of these so the the total dice damage is at most 12D, but I am not convinced you can use the full auto attack from a grapple.

again, does not say which mode of fire is the only mode. Why does it have to be single as opposed to full auto? Remember, grapple comes at a greater risk, you don't just miss, you give the opponent a free grapple attack to do the same.

No.

Probably not, l mainly wanted to see what objections I would hear and then come up with my own version.

In thinking of it, I would probably rule that one arm or manipulator must do the actual grappling or holding of the target. This is not stated as RAW, but that makes sense.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

The high capacity magazine adds weight (so call it 10 Kg +50% or 15 kg).

actually you are low. it doubles the weight per the book. Also per the book, 20rnds = 10% of weapon weight for determining ammo weight so pistol is 1kg, thus a 40rnd mg is .2x1 or .2 kilos. But since the weapon listed weight includes a full mag, it is only adding .2 kg per weapon to the weapon's weight. soo 10 weapons, let's say (because it is) 2kg!

All the gear (combat arms and cuffs) to let you carry them add weight (all that metal call it another 10 kg total 25 kg) . The arm strength isn't the only strength you need, your legs and back are now carrying about 1/3 your body weight extra mass. Now you are holding all that weight in front of you, during your combat your centre of gravity shifts it is now no longer above your legs you need to brace yourself (which all that recoil will throw off) or you will fall over. You are also very slow moving with all that extra mass, agility now sucks, there goes your Dex modifier if any (it may shift negative).

Think this is going a bit into lala land creating a home-brew of the combat arm augment that is not what this game is giving. The arm has a STR of up to STR18 and comes in at TL13.

There is no weight of just the arm listed. How do you even know that this arm is not lighter than the original meat arm in terms of mass? This is TL 13 stuff with alloys and nanites and other techno stuff that your feeble 21st century Terran understanding could never reconcile! You are trying apply your paltry sense of science, medicine and engineering to this tech that is far and away more advanced than anything you have ever looked at? pft! Stone knives and bear skins! Cutting and sewing people like garments?

There is no DEX DM penalty listed. Why would an STR bonus be mentioned but no DEX penalty? I think the tech worked out those problems back at TL8

Also when using TWO weapons you get a DM -2 on each. Using TEN weapons what is your DM -20? Finally it is hard to grapple with your HANDS FULL so drop those two weapons.

CORE does not address dual weapons if you have additional manipulators and hands free thingies. That's what you and I are trying to figure out on our own. I hear you on the hands full thing. You need at least one hand free to do the grapple. One or more can shoot, just like you can in the normal rules.

Of course in any high law level society you're not allowed off the ship except into a brig with all your power drained as you ARE a weapon. Likely when (if you are allowed to) you leave you will be told DON'T COME BACK. Your ship may be blocked from landing or even refuelling (hope you have a gas giant available). So likely you are restricted to low TL worlds and can't get medical aid due to all the high TL implants. Short life expectancy.

this all depends on who I am in the game. Also this context is well out of the scope of what I was originally asking.

 

[swordtart]

"remarkable manual control"... and yet the way you hear that, cannot hold and fire a 1kg pistol? Then what exactly is does that STR of 9 and DEX of 15 do for him? That is stronger than the average human and at human max in terms of dexterity. I am leaning toward text flavour unless they specifically state things that it cannot do with those stats. If it is too small to hold the pistol, then it cannot claim the STR9, and if the claw is so simple (as opposed to having remarkable control) that it operates like a claw machine claw, then it cannot claim the DEX15.
I am taking back 2 weapons for this one.

It was more the "tiny claw" comment. As I said though, I am not hard over on this and for the money you would expect it to be useful. It doesn't set out in the description exactly what it can or cannot do but I am inclined to agree with you about what it can carry. However there is nothing in the description that says it allows an additional or independent action. I read it as more of an assistive device but all of this is going to be a referee call.

I disputed this as stating you cannot use them at the same time is basically the same as saying you cannot use them. A restriction not mentioned at all in the description of the item... which says you can use them.

Using two things at the same time is very different to being able to use them independently. I can carry a pistol and a sword into a fight, but I can't use both at the same time effectively (especially if I am actually grappling while holding them both). I view it similarly to the Gauntlet Laser, it gives you a weapon you can fire but allows you to have an open hand as well. Since using another weapon in that open hand is such an obvious thing for a player to want to do I would expect a specific statement if it was allowed or disallowed.

Ultimately the rules are ambiguous.

your interpretation is not just an interpretation, it contradicts the entry of the book. It's a house rule. But that's fine.

I said it doesn't sound like a weapon carrier, the text doesn't mention weapons. What I said doesn't contradict anything because the entry doesn't explicitly say anything.

This I don't get at all. Are you saying that a combat arm replaces your arm and leaves you with no hand? In my interpretation, you have a combat arm, complete with a hand and to that you have a weapons mount per the description. Effectively another way to use a weapon hands free... free to hold another weapon! However, I will conceded that maybe the mount replaces the hand, but then that is what the weapon implant does.

Sorry that is my error, I thought you were saying that the combat arms were in addition to normal arms. That would have given you an extra 2 weapons in each normal hand. It was those I was discounting. Absolutely the combat arm would normally have a functional hand.

My thought was that the mount was more like the "Integrated Weapon Mount" on Battle Dress CSC46 described as "For convenience, and to ensure an operator is never without a weapon yet keeps both hands free, battle dress can be constructed with integrated weapons, usually on the back of the arms or shoulders"

The description used for the augment is admittedly lacking, so this BD version of almost the same thing I think captures writer intent better... maybe?

see above.

Corrected in my response above.

For ranged attack, my arguments would still show; 2 hands, 2 weapons mounts on arms- hands free, 2 manipulators, 4 hands free cuffs. or 10 total.

This is RAW I admit. "a" pistol or small blade sized weapon.

I'd say one arm could be used (so if your combination of exotica allowed multiple weapons any of those could be used) so that at least halves the number of weapons you can bring to bear.

again, does not say which mode of fire is the only mode. Why does it have to be single as opposed to full auto? Remember, grapple comes at a greater risk, you don't just miss, you give the opponent a free grapple attack to do the same.

I am on the fence on this one, if it was the only advantage you were trying to obtain I would allow it, but you are trying to claim multiple full auto as well and I don't think you could coordinate all that dakka whilst grappling with someone.

All of the equipment you are talking about would require a skill check to operate. You couldn't operate more than one in a turn as they are not linked and you only get one major action in a turn (and you already used that for the grapple).

Normally these rules come with checks and balances, you can fire multiple weapons but you suffer a penalty to hit. It is the stacking of rules to gain the advantage whilst eliminating the balancing disadvantage that sets my referee "NO-o-meter" going. If you were just wanting to use a cuff to fire three guns at once, or just wanting to use full auto on a grapple, or just wanting to fire a combat arm weapon with a weapon in the hand of the arm etc. I'd consider it (maybe adding a bane to the check).

All of it all at once with no disadvantage reads like an exploit.

However as you asked about RAW it is hard to argue either way as most of the Rules are not Written (or at least written explicitly).

Probably not, l mainly wanted to see what objections I would hear and then come up with my own version.

In thinking of it, I would probably rule that one arm or manipulator must do the actual grappling or holding of the target. This is not stated as RAW, but that makes sense.

Agreed.

 

[mavikfelna]

Just a note, races with multiple limbs, must have the Multi-Limbed trait to use more than one at a time.

Now, if you have a neurojack you could probably run a multi-limb program, you just need to write up rules for it.

I would also say you would need a neurojack program for multi-attack to to allow you to coordinate all those guns pointing at the same target. But that's just me.

 

[swordtart]

Just a note, races with multiple limbs, must have the Multi-Limbed trait to use more than one at a time.

Now, if you have a neurojack you could probably run a multi-limb program, you just need to write up rules for it.

I would also say you would need a neurojack program for multi-attack to to allow you to coordinate all those guns pointing at the same target. But that's just me.

Neural Jacks explicitly state number and bandwidth of tasks they can accommodate. The most advanced can handle up to three tasks with a total bandwidth requirement of 3 (so that could be three Expert/1 packages or one Expert/3 for example).

Each of these Expert packages could control a single weapon and as they can operate autonomously and could each grant an additional attack action per turn as long as the weapons were on mounts that were capable of targeting independently of where they were mounted.

 

[Sigtrygg]

<silly mode> Bio-engineer an octopus, add a neural link and expert program etc. etc. whatever. Have it in a life support capsule strapped to your front, have another strapped to your back.

You direct the fire of each of your eight limbed augments with but a thought.

Is that silly enough yet or shall we use a squid... </silly mode>

 

[swordtart]

Or drink 2 pints of liquid explosive and attach a contact detonator to your naval. Go for the grapple, bear hug and boom!

You they have a great justification for a full body cyborg

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

<silly mode> Bio-engineer an octopus, add a neural link and expert program etc. etc. whatever. Have it in a life support capsule strapped to your front, have another strapped to your back.

You direct the fire of each of your eight limbed augments with but a thought.

Is that silly enough yet or shall we use a squid... </silly mode>

 

[swordtart]

If you want the above you could build it with the robot handbook. It could be a stationary size 3 robot that you strap on like a backpack. It would have extra manipulators. It could have fire control to enable it to coordinate multiple weapon attacks (and multiple fire controllers if you want to link more than 4 weapons). It would only need a basic brain as discussed previously (or even a Primitive (Homing)) that could be commanded by voice or a neural comm if you wanted to be discrete (well as discrete as you could be with a mass of tentacle arms sticking out of your coat).

As the brain is conducting the attacks though it shouldn't get the benefit of the auto hit in grapple. However you could just take the option of throwing your opponent to do damage and then command your robot as a minor action to open up. At short range with good enough fire control systems you could be getting +6 on your attack roll which is an automatic hit (and more likely would result in bonus damage for effect). Of course you wouldn't even need to grapple first.

You could also use those manipulators for other tasks (possibly with a more advanced brain).

8 manipulators with two fire control systems plus your own hands would give you the 10 gun capability. That would require an 8 slot robot (droyne sized) which might be a bit big (unless it was part of a battle suit). In addition linked weapons all use the same attack roll and do not roll damage independently instead each additional weapon adding +1 damage per dice of damage.

If you wanted to have 8 rolls each doing the full damage of the weapon you would need 8 separate fire controllers (each of which take up a slot). This would be very expensive and bulky.

A size 1 (rat sized) worn robot could have a single oversized manipulator* (you need size 3 to wield a pistol) and a fire control system and a basic targeting brain. The most expensive component would be the Fire Control system and could run you KCr100's. If you were on a budget however you could get away with using the robots native DEX (which could be amplified relatively cheaply). A TL13 based robot with Gun Combat-2 would cost 1KCr* (and would make a reasonable pistol equipped sentry gun). Each robot would operate independently and thus would get it's own attack with full damage.

It depends on how many rats you could wear at a time

EDIT
*You can drive the price down further if you get fit a weapon mount in the body and leave the manipulators as size 1. That would also leave a spare slot that you could use for an autoloader or give the robot locomotion.