IP and Copyright Discussion

[Dave Chase]

IT would help to keep published IP works separate from internet rambling posts. The laws only apply to one, not both. Plus a lot of laws have not been determined yet, like blogs, for instance. Especially ones that allow for "interaction".

Ah, but President Obama and those that work for him see blogs as a threat and more. Including a recent ruling on disclosure required on blogs that promote things.

Now pictures, artwork, and things like that are pretty clear, but random musings on message boards are not. In fact, I bet it would be such a legal headache that copyright protections will never be extended. But then again it could produce a lot of easy money for lawyers, so they will likely tell you "I can try to do something... That will be $100.00."

Key word here is, Yet. There are several who have tried and in some smaller cases, it has been decide, both ways. Really depended on the Judge. So far, I have not seen or heard of any appeals, but someone will sooner or later challenge it.

If message board posts become copyrighted material I will quit the internet all together and let the corporate suites rule everywhere.

There is also a point of what is consider ramblings (using your term) become more. Many times, some of the ramblings has gotten others to think and then produce some work (like scenarios, ships, etc referencing these Traveller forums). Which in turn could lead to legal actions if a large portion or even a single major concept was developed from one of those ramblers posts.

I have seen companies lose to just he said/she said over such and there wasn't even the text to back it like there is here on forums.

Dave Chase

 

[TravellerArt]

Did someone hear about this from EDG himself ?

I have.

Well, keep in mind that this may be at EDG's request

It wasn't.

 

[Treebore]

IT would help to keep published IP works separate from internet rambling posts. The laws only apply to one, not both. Plus a lot of laws have not been determined yet, like blogs, for instance. Especially ones that allow for "interaction".

Ah, but President Obama and those that work for him see blogs as a threat and more. Including a recent ruling on disclosure required on blogs that promote things.

Now pictures, artwork, and things like that are pretty clear, but random musings on message boards are not. In fact, I bet it would be such a legal headache that copyright protections will never be extended. But then again it could produce a lot of easy money for lawyers, so they will likely tell you "I can try to do something... That will be $100.00."

Key word here is, Yet. There are several who have tried and in some smaller cases, it has been decide, both ways. Really depended on the Judge. So far, I have not seen or heard of any appeals, but someone will sooner or later challenge it.

If message board posts become copyrighted material I will quit the internet all together and let the corporate suites rule everywhere.

There is also a point of what is consider ramblings (using your term) become more. Many times, some of the ramblings has gotten others to think and then produce some work (like scenarios, ships, etc referencing these Traveller forums). Which in turn could lead to legal actions if a large portion or even a single major concept was developed from one of those ramblers posts.

I have seen companies lose to just he said/she said over such and there wasn't even the text to back it like there is here on forums.

Dave Chase

True, there is a lot of inconsistency within the law, but, I hope, a large part of that is because states have judges who do not even have law degrees (South Carolina I am looking at you), so you get a lot of idiotic rulings that have to be appealed simply to get the case to a judge who may actually know how to properly interpret law.

Still, until then, no one can truthfully say their posts are protected by copyright, that is simply not true. Especially when they are posting in a forum making posts about an IP that doesn't even belong to them. That is not only untrue, but could be argued as illegal because he is claiming copyright on someone elses IP.

 

[Claybor]

So yes, posts to the internet is "published" material and are protected by copyright.

Yes, and I still find it very amusing.

Don't get me wrong, if someone asked that their posts not be quoted, I would not not do so.

Feel free to post/repost/eat/smell/sing or do anything you want with anything I ever say in an open forum on the internet because I am not so foolish as to expect millions of other random people to not do so.

And all this over a game, could you imagine what would happen if it was actually something important?

 

[random]

...With one exception, a new poster who was obviously trolling, this forum...

Directed at me I suppose. Why not, join the pack, one more example of the reason I prefer to lurk. False accusations make such a nice welcome. I didn't start the stink and don't see that my post was out of line. If anything it was far less charged than several other of the regulars, one you're all leaping to defend. But hey, go ahead and report it if you think I did something wrong. I shouldn't even be responding to this I guess as I suppose it'll be seen as just more trolling. I might even see it as trolling, if I cared at all about anyone replying to it but I don't think I see much sense in even lurking here. There's been few enough good topics and too much of this kind of crap. So report me, get me banned, does not bother me in the least as I am quit of this board anyway.

 

[Treebore]

...With one exception, a new poster who was obviously trolling, this forum...

Directed at me I suppose. Why not, join the pack, one more example of the reason I prefer to lurk. False accusations make such a nice welcome. I didn't start the stink and don't see that my post was out of line. If anything it was far less charged than several other of the regulars, one you're all leaping to defend. But hey, go ahead and report it if you think I did something wrong. I shouldn't even be responding to this I guess as I suppose it'll be seen as just more trolling. I might even see it as trolling, if I cared at all about anyone replying to it but I don't think I see much sense in even lurking here. There's been few enough good topics and too much of this kind of crap. So report me, get me banned, does not bother me in the least as I am quit of this board anyway.

It was probably me, I am pretty new and I dared to call his "copyright crap" a bunch of crap. Which it is, and so is anyone else who claims message board posts, in general, are protected by copyrights. IF thats trolling then boot me. I think of it as cleaning out the crap with some bright sun shine.

 

[captainjack23]

...With one exception, a new poster who was obviously trolling, this forum...

Directed at me I suppose. Why not, join the pack, one more example of the reason I prefer to lurk. False accusations make such a nice welcome.

It was probably me, I am pretty new and I dared to call his "copyright crap" a bunch of crap. Which it is, and so is anyone else who claims message board posts, in general, are protected by copyrights. IF thats trolling then boot me. I think of it as cleaning out the crap with some bright sun shine.

Nope, sorry guys. Not even close. About six months ago, we had some ninny who was trolling on the subject of manned spaceflight. Why it was stupid, etc. Matt banned him very quickly.


And by the way, it wasn't my copyright crap. It was EDG's, who, according to Beech, is gone.


EDIT: realized someone else had been confused by my post.

 

[Ishmael]

It was probably me, I am pretty new and I dared to call his "copyright crap" a bunch of crap. Which it is, and so is anyone else who claims message board posts, in general, are protected by copyrights. IF thats trolling then boot me. I think of it as cleaning out the crap with some bright sun shine.

Then I guess I'm crap too.
Shall I consider myself rinsed away with "bright sun shine"?
If so, then bye.

I guess the answer for people like me is to not post on boards anymore.

 

[GamerDude]

There is "copyright" and there is "intellectual property"

IP is the idea, the thought, the theory, the concept. Repeating scientific theories that have been published and discussed and posted ad infinitum are the IP of the originator, not someone who posts it to a forum after reading it in a text book for the 10th course covering that material.

Copyright covers presentation. I can't copyright someone else's IP, but I can copyright my presentation of it. This is what textbooks do... present someone else's IP in a particular layout and verbiage and that is copyrighted.

NOTHING in the recent big debate on cross posting, and who owns a post, is the post someone's IP is meaningless because the original post was not IP.. at best it was a copyright issue, and without a copyright notice there was no copyright.

And yes, if you don't believe you need to have that copyright notice from the very begining, look up the history on a comic called "Thunder Bunny"... the original author forgot a copyright notice on the first issue and was ruled against on protecting their copyright.

 

[Treebore]

It was probably me, I am pretty new and I dared to call his "copyright crap" a bunch of crap. Which it is, and so is anyone else who claims message board posts, in general, are protected by copyrights. IF thats trolling then boot me. I think of it as cleaning out the crap with some bright sun shine.

Then I guess I'm crap too.
Shall I consider myself rinsed away with "bright sun shine"?
If so, then bye.

I guess the answer for people like me is to not post on boards anymore.

Well, your wrong. I just confirmed it with two of my lawyer friends about 2 hours ago, so if you want to keep spreading the lies, then yeah, your crap being cleaned away by sunshine. Now if your willing to admit crap is crap, then welcome into the sunshine. The truth is a nice place.

 

[Ishmael]

Well, your wrong. I just confirmed it with two of my lawyer friends about 2 hours ago, so if you want to keep spreading the lies, then yeah, your crap being cleaned away by sunshine. Now if your willing to admit crap is crap, then welcome into the sunshine. The truth is a nice place.

I'm crap and I spread lies.... nice.
therefore...bye
I will make no further posts

 

[RandyT0001]

For those that want to know the truth about online copyright I refer you to: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ66.pdf

This circular gives information about copyright registration of online works made available over a communications network such as the Internet. This information applies also to works accessed via network (websites, homepages, and FTP sites) and files and documents transmitted and/or downloaded via network.

Copyright protects original authorship fixed in tangible form (17 USC sec.102(a)). For works transmitted online, the copyrightable authorship may consist of text, artwork, music, audiovisual material (including any sounds), sound recordings, etc. Copyright does not protect ideas, procedures, systems, or methods of operation (17 USC sec. 102(b)).

Under U. S. law, copyright protection subsists from the time the work is fixed in any tangible medium of expression from which it can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Copyright registration is not mandatory, but it has important benefits. For general information about copyright, request Circular 1, Copyright Basics. See “For Further Information” on page 4 on how to obtain circulars and other information.

As anyone can see GamerDude and Treebore's lawyer friends are mistaken in their assertions.

 

[Vile]

Did someone hear about this from EDG himself ?

I have.

Well, keep in mind that this may be at EDG's request

It wasn't.

Ditto. (Is everyone who is confused by

tags watching? That's how it works. Try it.)

Another forum episode leaves a bad aftertaste. Boards should either be moderated properly or not moderated at all. To ban EDG over this particular incident while leaving the offending party (and I call posting other people's words as if they were your own offensive at the very least) unpunished smacks of snap judgement.

I know the board owners don't have time for this. They should appoint some moderators who do. Oh, and an "ignore" feature wouldn't go amiss either, although it's sometimes hard to keep up with some posters alter-egos.

 

[Infojunky]

Oh look a copyright flame war, how cute.

So guys should we add this to the proscribed topics list?

It is looks like it has become one of them.

 

[Dave Chase]

Treebore,
I see your lawyers with X number of more.
Are they copyright, IP, Trademark specialty attorneys or just lawyers with a degree. (Note: not putting them down but showing up silliness of my dad's bigger than your dad, with more silliness.)

GamerDude,
Make sure you are reading the most current koolaid of the day and decade. Your comments are correct for the time period that it happened in. Not in today's current international way of doing things.
(I see RandyT has already addressed this. )

And even though this is a thread about such located in a game section of a game companies forum, it still has some importance.

Why, because maybe now some of you will see a small bit of what a game company has to go through in a license depending on whom the licensor is and how popular the license is. It might also help some of you who wonder why Mongoose was so specific in their Fair Use Policy and such.

I find it amusingly sad, that several individuals are still flaming things over something like this. And yet only one has been ban from these forums.


Oh, and last (mainly for Treebore),
Copyright only matters if you want to enforce it. So, if the individual (or company) does not make any attempts to stop someone from violating their copyright or IP, it will make it harder for them to attempt to take it to court and win, since the other party will be able to argue that others have done it before, so, it was not obvious to them (the violator) that it was a problem.

Sounds silly but I have seen people get away with it in the licensing industry. In two companys that I worked for as they got bigger and into more licenses (especially those that made a profit) it was a full time job for at least one individual and at times a law firm also.

And if you don't think it is serious about the posting of material, copyright and IP of things on the internet, go start watching how serious the United States government is looking into it. There are several bills being considered and one that has recently been passed on bloggers who 'review' products.

Dave Chase

 

[MongooseMatt]

Okay guys, this is Rumour Control.

Both Gamerdude and EDG were given a week's ban, in the hope that the time would let things cool down. Both were given the same strict warning - the next one to step out of line would be banned permanently.

And I was content to leave it at that.

However, EDG then sent me a private mail that was hostile and downright rude. With that, he earned the ban.

Now, let's get back to Traveller.