What's up with Traveller IP

[Sigtrygg]

I don't think I have missed an announcement on these boards, but conversations have taken place elsewhere and subtle hints in the latest books lead me to believe that Mongoose now owns the IP to Traveller.

Is this correct, has Marc sold you the lot?

I ask because:
a discussion on CotI peeked my interest
a perusal of the last few books shows that the core rulebook 2022 update has Traveller trademarked to Far Future Enterprises, while from High Guard 2022 update onward the books have Traveller as trademarked to Mongoose
if Mongoose is now the owner then the OTU is your material and I have to shut up about it conflicting too much with CT (it won't stop me entirely )

 

[Lurking Grue]

Wow, that would be a surprising turn of events! What is this discussion (couldn't find it with a cursory search on CotI) and how in-the-know are the ones saying this? If this is true, it would be a major scoop for Mongoose and would also most likely mean T5 is done and dusted (it might already be, I haven't followed it recently).

 

[To Tha Moon!]

T5 is still going.

But that makes sense. The Core book would still be FFE, but anything else is very much Mongoose.

 

[agentwigggles]

T5 hasnt had anything published for years.
Mark is old and will only get older. I haven't found a source for this snippet, but it's been passed around that Mark family doesn't have any interest in Traveller.
So Traveller or FFE have to be sold, or Traveller goes into metaphorical closet.
I think it it's in progress and that's why older editions our on the mongoose store now. That's for me the only thing that explains the man hour cost of nothing with it. Ownership is transferring.

Though a surprising twist could be mark releases it all into the public domain.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Considering you can already get it for free in pdf form what would public domain offer?

The Third Imperium setting would remain in Mongoose custodianship, anyone can already publish their own setting.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Considering you can already get it for free in pdf form what would public domain offer?

The Third Imperium setting would remain in Mongoose custodianship, anyone can already publish their own setting.

It would mean that a future owner of the IP couldn't yank it all down and sue the people using elements of it. Just because Marc allows it to be free is no guarantee that the next owner wouldn't change their minds. After all, look at what Wizards of the Coast tried to do to D&D 5E and the people using it to base their own content on for free (as was originally intended and allowed).

 

[Sigtrygg]

What do we learn from the Wizards of the Coast failure to get their own way?

 

[Condottiere]

Don't upset your fanbase, for people who don't, and won't, buy your products, even after course correction.

It comes down to increasing net profit by expanding your footprint, as opposed to marketshare; one is a zero sum game, and the other assumes untapped potential customers.

And with Hasbro, there may have been a mandate initially, but eventually driven by desperation, as other divisions started failing.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I'm still amazed there has been no official announcement.

 

[Limpin Legin]

I'm still amazed there has been no official announcement.

Probably because question was asked over the weekend and the weekend hasn't actually finished yet. Officially, without the influence of social media, the weekend are rest days, or time off from official duties.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Probably because question was asked over the weekend and the weekend hasn't actually finished yet. Officially, without the influence of social media, the weekend are rest days, or time off from official duties.

Or they are contractually bound not to answer this kind of question just yet. Silence, if it persists, is an answer all its own.

 

[Limpin Legin]

Or they are contractually bound not to answer this kind of question just yet. Silence, if it persists, is an answer all its own.

That sort of Nett-etiquette happens a lot too.

BTW, tomorrow is a National Bank Holiday here in UK, so likely Mongoose officialdom wont reply until Tuesday - just so you are aware

 

[agentwigggles]

I dont expect them to answer until Matt is done transitioning the company to fully co opted and retiring.

 

[Micky]

I'm still amazed there has been no official announcement.

I'm not TBH. It surely was a purely business, a legacy, move. To secure the future of Traveller and keep it in the right caretaking hands for the decades to come. God forbid some gaming corporate conglomerate come snap it up later (hopefully much of course), perhaps from Miller's heirs for a one time check. Self-aggrandizement comes easy to some, or is necessary to their fragile psyches, others just quietly go about their business and let that speak for them. That seems to fit Mongoose pretty well I'd say. We know they got the IP... what else needs to be said or announced.

Has anything really changed since they took over. I haven't noticed any real kind of change due to now having the IP. Has there?? Well other than the obvious positive ones like overall quality which surely had nothing to do with that.

In short nothing has changed. So why announce anything. Why not announce though?? What I have noticed however is there seems to be some hate out there for Mongoose. I saw a reddit thread from some time back where this was discussed and man OH MAN are there some angry, bitter and spiteful people out there. Never knew Matt and Mongoose were in the business of shattering domestic bliss as you might think considering the vitriol thrown at him and the company by some in the Traveller community.

 

[Limpin Legin]

I'm not TBH. It surely was a purely business, a legacy, move. To secure the future of Traveller and keep it in the right caretaking hands for the decades to come. God forbid some gaming corporate conglomerate come snap it up later (hopefully much of course), perhaps from Miller's heirs for a one time check. Self-aggrandizement comes easy to some, or is necessary to their fragile psyches, others just quietly go about their business and let that speak for them. That seems to fit Mongoose pretty well I'd say. We know they got the IP... what else needs to be said or announced.

Has anything really changed since they took over. I haven't noticed any real kind of change due to now having the IP. Has there?? Well other than the obvious positive ones like overall quality which surely had nothing to do with that.

I understand they are trying to make it better for third party creators and fans alike. See no mention of exchange Trademark legalities other than mention of adopting a US-style Fair Use Policy next year (2025), like (most?) other US-based editions of Traveller that may have bit the dust (and well remembered - ) in times gone by. However, clearly something has changed post 2023+ inside the books.
I found this link on this website, from the MD himself:

Traveller 3rd Party Licensing

It has taken us a little while, but we have finally arrived - 3rd party licensing for Traveller has been revamped and is now live! You can find out more right here: https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pages/traveller-licensing We now have three modes of licensing for those looking to publish...

forum.mongoosepublishing.com

 

[Lurking Grue]

What I have noticed however is there seems to be some hate out there for Mongoose. I saw a reddit thread from some time back where this was discussed and man OH MAN are there some angry, bitter and spiteful people out there. Never knew Matt and Mongoose were in the business of shattering domestic bliss as you might think considering the vitriol thrown at him and the company by some in the Traveller community.

Yeah, Traveller has always had some very passionate (opionated?) fans who don't mince words when talking about it. This was evident well before Mongoose got the license. There have been Traveller edition wars and canon wars since time immemorial. And that's okay, IMHO, as long as the conversation is kept civil and respectful (which it sadly always isn't).

However, what I don't get is this hate towards Mongoose. If it wasn't for Mongoose, there wouldn't be much of Traveller now! There wouldn't be multiple new products coming out for Traveller per year, nor would there be much of any Traveller presence in the RPG space outside of old grognards (like me) with their over 30-year-old books and memories of Traveller's glory days. No, sorry T5 fans, T5 did not bring anywhere near as much attention and new fans to Traveller as Mongoose Traveller did and still does. So, IMHO, Mongoose pretty much saved Traveller and have kept the flame burning - I still remember the Long Night of 1995(ish)-2005(ish) where it seemed Traveller was dead and buried for good - the way things are now, it is the second golden era for Traveller for sure!

I can undestand if someone doesn't entirely like the direction Mongoose is taking Traveller, I have my doubts at times too (like the move towards a more Star Wars-y direction, when I would prefer a more "serious" sci-fi direction), but I'm still very happy Traveller is being developed and looks to be going strong (even stronger than I would have believed years ago). I can pick and choose what I want to use and what not, and nobody's coming to take my old books away, so I can always enjoy them right along with the new(er) stuff. So, I just don't understand that hate and vitriol people have towards someone keeping Traveller afloat, even if it isn't excatly like you'd want it. I'd argue the new material isn't drastically different from the old material, it clearly leans on it and respects it, IMHO. Mongoose certainly isn't trashing Traveller.

Even from the early years, there's always been the concept of 'In My Traveller Universe'. So you always will have your version of the Traveller Universe, no Canon Police is going to arrest you if don't follow the latest canon, so just roll with it and enjoy the fact Traveller is still travelling! (Just my 2 cents.)

 

[Micky]

I understand they are trying to make it better for third party creators and fans alike. See no mention of exchange Trademark legalities other than mention of adopting a US-style Fair Use Policy next year (2025), like (most?) other US-based editions of Traveller that may have bit the dust (and well remembered - ) in times gone by. However, clearly something has changed post 2023+ inside the books.
I found this link on this website, from the MD himself:

Traveller 3rd Party Licensing

It has taken us a little while, but we have finally arrived - 3rd party licensing for Traveller has been revamped and is now live! You can find out more right here: https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pages/traveller-licensing We now have three modes of licensing for those looking to publish...

forum.mongoosepublishing.com

That's nice to know and makes sense. Thanks!!!

 

[Sigtrygg]

The issue a lot of people had with MgT1e was it wasn't what they would have done with CT
Everyone had years worth of expertise in hacking the various editions to produce their one true vision.
There were also a couple of editions that almost made it before Mongoose got the license - ACT and Lift Off spring to mind.

The main issue I had with MgT1e was the supplements, many of them appeared to be written by people who had never read any Traveller material and had zero knowledge about things of a military nature - the high point had to be the merchant marine...

Still there was some good stuff.

The 2nd edition has gone from strength to strength, just about everything is a must have for me these days.

 

[ottarrus]

Well, something needs be said here.
Marc and Frank are at an age where they are effectively retired. I don't know who will take the reins of FarFuture, but Traveller as a game is in pretty good hands with Mongoose, at least the brains behind the 2nd Edition anyway.
No, I was not a big fan of Mongoose 1st Edition for several reasons. But it should also be said that there were a few gems in the series that I kept.
But we all need to realize that all the great OGs [Original Gamers] are taking their places at the Great Table. Gary Gygax, MAR Barker, Greg Stafford, Robin Crosby, among many, many others have left us with This Thing We Love. We should all be getting emotionally ready to drape the Sunburst in mourning black, though it gives me absolutely no pleasure in saying so.
One of the things that Chaosium did before Greg Stafford died was have a younger friend plumb Greg's ideas, intentions, and thought processes about Runequest and the Glorantha setting. There was time, before he passed, for Greg to look at the newer products and curate his legacy in how the game will move forward after he was gone. I wonder if anyone closer to Marc Miller and Frank Chadwick have considered or are doing the same thing.
[note: no one has died, the Mourning Sunburst is just illustrative of my point]

 

[videopete]

I mean, based on how it looks for an IP with them gaining all the legacy material, and maybe later start releasing older non traveller lines from GDW (Dark Conspiracy, and TW2000), the real clincher would be acquiring the DGP assets, but that would require dark sacrifices and straight up witchcraft or maybe the second coming itself