Immunity To Trollkin "feature" - any comments

[simonh]

Accroding to the rules for generating more experienced characters, even the most marginaly "advanced" characters, with only 50 extra skill points, all get 1D3 random runes in addition to those gained from their profession.

This indicates that by the time all your characetrs in your game have gained 50 point in experience then, assuming a group of 4 characters, you'll have obtained around 8 runes. If this is a typical party thats about 1 rune found by the party for every 12 skill points. If we assume a rate of advancement of 1.5% per improvement roll, that's 8 improvement rolls or from 2 to 3 batches of experience rewards.

I know this is extrapolating wildly, but at least it's some kind of point of reference. If adventuring parties typicaly sell or dispose of (because they're chaos runes, are infected by disease, etc) a proportion of the runes they find, then we could be looking at a typical rate of one rune per session.

If a typical oppostion group has a few runes, then we're in ballpark of saying that all is well and you just take the runes you want. However some additional rules for eliminating runes from the game may be required such as that they've got magical conditions on their use, or they disintegrate when their owner dies, or such.

Personaly I don't think it's a big deal. Rune magic is basicaly just Spirit Magic from RQ3, so I'd tend to think of Runes as being just slightly more swanky versions of spell foci from that game. I think most characters will tend to just integrate the few runes that they need to get the magic of most use to them and then leave it at that. However magical specialists may well end up with half a dozen or more integrated runes. In fact the main cost of integrating them will be the POW, not the difficulty in accquiring them.


Simon Hibbs

 

[WildHealer]

8 points of damage DOES get through 5 points of armour.

Duh - you don't say... Well done...

My comment still stands, regardless.

 

[zanshin]

And anyone in a cult is going to be expected to give any runes they cant use to the cult.

Price wise, cost is one of the easiest things to settle - the GM determines the games economy. I would have thought a value equal to a Magnitude 1 spell would be appropriate - 100 silver maybe?

And maybe make runes difficult to extract once embedded in a wand , bracelet etc - easily defaced and ruined if a character with the appropriate craft skill does not extract them.

With death/spirits/resurrection- how about when a character dies he loses the connection with the runes, but the power he has embodied into them flows back to him. If he stays a spirit he retains all that POW, if he goes back to his body he loses any POW over racial maximum.

 

[WildHealer]

Personaly I don't think it's a big deal. Rune magic is basicaly just Spirit Magic from RQ3, so I'd tend to think of Runes as being just slightly more swanky versions of spell foci from that game.

That's a good point. In which case I'd be inclined to let them fade into the background a bit - ie not have a high price tag, be relatively ubiquitous, etc, etc. That way you don't get the weirdness we've been discussing.

In fact, thinking on my feet, it might be worth putting them waaaayyy in the background. Especially when there's only 1 spell per rune in the rulebook, or thereabouts. Why not just have a single Runecasting skill, or a separate skill per spell (oops - in Sorcery territory there...).

Just brainstorming.

Sarah

 

[B_Steele]

Another thing to consider with a pack of crafty, cunning little Enlo is to have them lure the players into traps, or into situations where they can take higher ground, surprise, knockingthem prone, difficult ground...all of the things that will give them bonuses to their attacks in order to equal out all that Precise-ing.

Also, there is nothing like a good three-to-one odds to help the Enlo grapple, inflict pain, or perhaps start taking stuff from the PCs. Two Enlo hold 'em, one plucks off his helmet...and then you have a very vital, very soft spot to hope for.

If they cannot get through the armour, the Enlo should either run away to fight smarter rather than harder, or find a way to remove the armour.

Just a few suggestions!

Cheers all,
Bry

 

[JohnLokiBeard]

Some threads over on the CONAN boards about Pict tactics are also worth a look [having trouble posting links for some reason, but Search for Picts and on the first 2 pages there are these]:

Being Swarmed/ Overrun

Question about Picts

noob master needs sugestion

pictish defences

Obviously there's quite a bit of rules-specific stuff that needs system conversion, but the general ideas for 'small & naked vs big & armoured' are sound.

 

[Enpeze]

I dont know if the thread opener is interested to get tips how to challenge his players with trollkins.

I suspect she wants rather imply that the MRQ combat system is "broken" or something.

 

[Archer]

Also useful tactics;

Using Nets
do not underestimate the tactics of throwing a net over an opponent.
When entangled, you can grapple the opponent while your comrade remove his helmet so that you can strike his head easily. Or you can just go ahead and strangle him.

Small creatures vs Large
Make a spear suitable for several persons to hold, and ram it into the larger creature. Add all the cooperating creatures Damage Modifier to the damage roll/give it a +1 damage per creature modifier.

Mounts
Use a mount and a spear/lance to gain that additional damage to punch through armor. For smaller creatures this can be anything from a pony to a riding boar.

Drop it on 'is 'ead
In an ambush, lure an opponent to a place where you can drop heavy rocks on him.

Aim for 'is 'eet
Use ranged weapons, aim for the feet. An immobalized opponent is a disabled opponent.

Low Blow!
No matter what the rules say, there is a place on the human body where you can not have any armor (not in the tech level of Gloranta/RuneQuest standard); The groin. A swift kick will take care of most male opponents.

Formation!
A group of opponents with shields surround an opponent with shield wall, and move to force him move to where they want him. This way you can split a group of opponents that are not in formation up and take care of them, one by one.

 

[burdock]

[/quote]Duh - you don't say... Well done...

My comment still stands, regardless.

yet your original comment that a "feature" of the new rules is that:

Any character with 5AP or more (chainmail or better, or protection magic) is completely immune to all attacks from trollkin.

with which you started this thread, is erroneous as demonstrated in one of my earlier posts.

The Trollkin in the new Runequest rules are much weaker than Whiteyes bandit Trollkin. Perhaps they would be better employed as food for a Dark Troll rather than fighting (beginning!) PCs with 5 AP (which is rather heavy armoury even for Whiteyes official Trollkin bandits).

You have to match the scenario to the stregnth of the PCs otherwise such problems are bound to arise.

 

[burdock]

hmmm.....got all the quotes messed up there! I will try again...........:



yet your original comment that a "feature" of the new rules is that:

Any character with 5AP or more (chainmail or better, or protection magic) is completely immune to all attacks from trollkin.

with which you started this thread, is erroneous as demonstrated in one of my earlier posts.

The Trollkin in the new Runequest rules are much weaker than Whiteyes bandit Trollkin. Perhaps they would be better employed as food for a Dark Troll rather than fighting (beginning!) PCs with 5 AP (which is rather heavy armoury even for Whiteyes official Trollkin bandits).

You have to match the scenario to the stregnth of the PCs otherwise such problems are bound to arise.

 

[simonh]

The Trollkin in the new Runequest rules are much weaker than Whiteyes bandit Trollkin. Perhaps they would be better employed as food for a Dark Troll rather than fighting (beginning!) PCs with 5 AP (which is rather heavy armoury even for Whiteyes official Trollkin bandits).

True. Comparing the MRQ Trollkin to MRQ dark Trolls, Aldryami, Mostali etc their approach seems to be to provide the absolute minimum stats for the species, allowing you to use the experience rules to upgrade their skills as you require.

Previous editions took a similar approach. If you compared Whiteye's Trollkin to the basic stats for Trollkin in RQ3 you'd probably find they are considerably more skilled and better equiped.


Simon Hibbs

 

[Vadrus]

Never underestimate the little races, if anyone remembers the Gazateers for D&D even Kobolds were no laughing matter there as they were highly organised and not the generic cannon fodder. Fun seeing the PC's being chased of by a block of 4' tall, highly trained, Pikemen (PikeKobolds?).


Vadrus

 

[MongooseMatt]

True. Comparing the MRQ Trollkin to MRQ dark Trolls, Aldryami, Mostali etc their approach seems to be to provide the absolute minimum stats for the species, allowing you to use the experience rules to upgrade their skills as you require.

Correct.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Fun seeing the PC's being chased of by a block of 4' tall, highly trained, Pikemen (PikeKobolds?).

Pi-Kobolds?

Pikobolds? Pronounced Pik-O-Bolds?

Okay, that's enough. . .

 

[B_Steele]

<insert childish Pokemon cartoon voice>

"Pik-O-Bold! I choose you!"

Sorry boss...couldn't resist.

:lol:

Bry

 

[Archer]

My favorite is the Pi-Kobolds. Math geniuses can be very dangerous, you know. They can learn how to split the atom.....

 

[Vadrus]

My favorite is the Pi-Kobolds. Math geniuses can be very dangerous, you know. They can learn how to split the atom.....

I really really don't wont to consider Kobolds with nukes :shock:


Vadrus

 

[GregLynch]

GM: 'You enter the main kobold cavern. There are dozens of them in here, hopping around like little spider monkeys. As you step forward, one of them pulls a lever.'

(Half an hour of GM rolling dice)

GM: 'OK, you take 829,616 points of damage. Do you have anything that protects against fire?'

 

[Archer]

GM: 'You enter the main kobold cavern. There are dozens of them in here, hopping around like little spider monkeys. As you step forward, one of them pulls a lever.'

(Half an hour of GM rolling dice)

GM: 'OK, you take 829,616 points of damage. Do you have anything that protects against fire?'

ROTLMAO!

Even if they have, I guess they wont have anything that protects from radiation
Massive CON loss!

Beware the Pi-Kobolds...

 

[AKAramis]

Also useful tactics;


Low Blow!
No matter what the rules say, there is a place on the human body where you can not have any armor (not in the tech level of Gloranta/RuneQuest standard); The groin. A swift kick will take care of most male opponents.

Sorry, Wrong!

I know a chap who has made rigid leather cups using only moosehide, bee's wax, a knife, an awl, sinew, and an oven. Considering that they stand up quite well to hard shots with rattan swords...

Hardened leather isn't hard to do, doesn't require terribly high heat, and can be done carefully without the oven, if one's willing to work over the fire carefully.

If there is lorica or plate, there is plenty enough skill to make a codpiece of metal. It's even possible to make it a single piece of metal. A bronze or brass cup isn't quite as tough as a steel one, but it will still provide quite a good deal of protection.

And while a kick in the cup isn't exactly fun, it isn't likely to leave one incapacitated. Now, a knife to the thigh, just to the side of the codpiece, THAT can be lethal... if it nicks the femoral artery.

Further, knickers of chain can be made, so that the space between the codpiece and leg armor is draped, too.

Oh, and a good shot to a woman's unarmored crotch will usually at least distract seriously. I've seen a few in fencing (SCA Rapier); accidental, but still a definite bout ender, and one or two in SCA Heavy.