I'm still a noob and I don't know if I got it right

[Vincent791]

I just read the Combat chapter of the Core Book and I don't know if I got it right. It seems that it's too easy to hit people:

1) Attack Roll
(AR) 1d20 + Base Attack Bonus + Str/Dex Modifier + Size modifier + Other
against
(DV) 10 + size modifier + Parry/Dodge bonus
Page 158 and 159.

Let's say: a thief level 3 against another thief level 3
The one attacking has something like this:
1d20 + 2(base attack bonus) + 2 (Str modifier) + 0 (size) +0 (other)

The DV of the other thief is
10 + 0(size) + 1 (Parry or dodge bonus) + 2 (Dex or Str bonus)

Even if I roll a natural 10 it's so easy to hit someone with all the modifiers, even at 1st level. In fact a natural 9 would be enough to hit him. Does it works this way?

2) Special Attacks. The Special Attacks are pretty easy to do (Cat's Parry, Hooking Parry, Panterish Twist, etc). They sound like a great advantage with very little restrictions or penalties to do it.

There are other things that I didn't get it, let's say:

3)I understood the Damage Reduction Vs. Armour piercing thing, but an armour with a DR of 9 sounds too powerful, how do I hit someone with this armour? I'd need a character with a bonus Str of +5 and a weapon with AP 5 to do half damage, right?

4)Also, about the Armour damage, I quote:

"Each time a suit of armor is struck by a weapon that inflicts 20 points of damage or more to the characters wearing the armour (after the armour is taken in account), its DR is reduced by 1d4." p. 163

I don't get if they're talking about 20 points of damage in a single round (sounds insane), or 20 accumulated points of damage (sounds logic to me).

I might be wrong cause I've not played the game yet, but the rules of Combat sounds too lethal, to easy to kill most people. Sorry for the long post but I really hope that you can help me.

 

[Trodax]

Even if I roll a natural 10 it's so easy to hit someone with all the modifiers, even at 1st level. In fact a natural 9 would be enough to hit him. Does it works this way?

Yeah, you got it right.

There are other things that I didn't get it, let's say:

3)I understood the Damage Reduction Vs. Armour piercing thing, but an armour with a DR of 9 sounds too powerful, how do I hit someone with this armour? I'd need a character with a bonus Str of +5 and a weapon with AP 5 to do half damage, right?

Yeah, DR 9 is quite powerful. Your opponent will get full use of his armour (ie. 9 is subtracted from all damage) unless you:
1) Have a total AP (Str+weapon AP) of at least 9, in which case DR is halved (ie. only 4 points are subtracted from damage).
or;
2) Use a finesse attack and hit your opponent with a marginal of at least 9 above his defence (for example, if you got an attack roll of 22 or more against an opponent with DR 9 and a defence of 13, you would automatically bypass all of his armour).

4)Also, about the Armour damage, I quote:

"Each time a suit of armor is struck by a weapon that inflicts 20 points of damage or more to the characters wearing the armour (after the armour is taken in account), its DR is reduced by 1d4." p. 163

I don't get if they're talking about 20 points of damage in a single round (sounds insane), or 20 accumulated points of damage (sounds logic to me).

20 points of damage in a single hit is what it takes to damage armour. This is a lot of damage, but isn't at all impossible with, for example, a critical hit from a bardiche (3x (2d10+1.5xStr)).

 

[argo]

I just read the Combat chapter of the Core Book and I don't know if I got it right. It seems that it's too easy to hit people:

1) Attack Roll
(AR) 1d20 + Base Attack Bonus + Str/Dex Modifier + Size modifier + Other
against
(DV) 10 + size modifier + Parry/Dodge bonus
Page 158 and 159.

Yeah, you did the math right.

Even if I roll a natural 10 it's so easy to hit someone with all the modifiers, even at 1st level. In fact a natural 9 would be enough to hit him. Does it works this way?

That is a bigger question than I think you think it is. I'm going to ramble now, I hope it makes some sense.

Lets look at the chance for an attacker to hit where the attacker has a full BAB against the various DV progressions, from here it is easy to adjust the math. So, assuming the ability scores of the attacker and defender are equal.

level good DV medium DV poor DV
1 55% 55% 55%
3 55% 60% 60%
5 60% 65% 70%
7 60% 70% 75%
9 65% 75% 80%
11 65% 80% 85%
15 70% 90% 95%
20 75% 95% 95%

Long story short, if all you go by is class bonuses offense quickly overpowers defense. This is not so bad considering how many hit points a character has at higher levels, if he were not being constantly hit battles would take a looong time to finish.

So what you need to think about when you consider defense is damage mitigation the simplest way to do this is to wear some armor. A 65% chance to get hit hurts a lot less when you have DR 6/- or 8/- softening up the blow.

The other thing to think about is actively adding to your DV. Anyone who simply relies on his class levels is going to get knocked around a lot. Take that Sdl 20 vs Sdl 20 fight. If the defender picks up a large shield the chance to hit drops to 55%, if he took the parry feat 50%, max Combat Expertise 25% (and at this point all itterative attacks are worthless), fight defensevly (with 5 ranks of tumble) 10%. Thats prety good defense. Of course that defensive character's damage output is not going to be so hot. But that brings us back to my earlier comment that this question is more complicated than you might think There are several interdependent variables going into this with the end result that most classes have the option of making a variety of different builds.

2) Special Attacks. The Special Attacks are pretty easy to do (Cat's Parry, Hooking Parry, Panterish Twist, etc). They sound like a great advantage with very little restrictions or penalties to do it.

Well, most of the Combat Manouvers have prereqs that require higher level characters. Beyond that, no there aren't many penalties to using a Combat Manouver, the balance is that your enemies can use them too.

3)I understood the Damage Reduction Vs. Armour piercing thing, but an armour with a DR of 9 sounds too powerful, how do I hit someone with this armour? I'd need a character with a bonus Str of +5 and a weapon with AP 5 to do half damage, right?

Close, like hitting an opponent's DV you only have to equal or excede their DR in order to penetrate their armor. So a Str bonus of +4 and a weapon with an AP of 5 is all you need to penetrate DR 9.

If you the DM want to control this your best bet is to control the equipment available to your PC's. Your average blacksmith does not have full plate and greatswords available in every town.

4)Also, about the Armour damage, I quote:

"Each time a suit of armor is struck by a weapon that inflicts 20 points of damage or more to the characters wearing the armour (after the armour is taken in account), its DR is reduced by 1d4." p. 163

I don't get if they're talking about 20 points of damage in a single round (sounds insane), or 20 accumulated points of damage (sounds logic to me).

The easy way to understand this rule: "every time a player has to make a massive damage save his DR is reduced by 1d4 regardless of weither or not the player made his save".

I might be wrong cause I've not played the game yet, but the rules of Combat sounds too lethal, to easy to kill most people. Sorry for the long post but I really hope that you can help me.

You're not wrong. Combat in Conan is fast, brutal and bloody, that is all part of the attraction. I woldn't worry though, there is still plenty of room for heroics in the system.

Hope that helps.

 

[Bregales]

2) Special Attacks. The Special Attacks are pretty easy to do (Cat's Parry, Hooking Parry, Panterish Twist, etc). They sound like a great advantage with very little restrictions or penalties to do it.

True, but you must keep in mind the Prerequisites. I just dug out my 1st edition Core book (because you've written elsewhere that that's the book you've gotten), and for example Cat's Parry (p185) has a prerequisite of Base Parry Bonus 6+. That's not the TOTAL PB adding Dex, etc., just the Base, which means a Thief cannot use this style until he's at least level 12 (p66). :shock:

 

[Vincent791]

Thanks you all! I'm almost done with the basis, I'm going to start with Sorcery today so it seems that we'll start pretty soon, maybe a couple of weeks.

BTW, it seems that I got it right, but I'm worried to give the players an adventure ala D&D and get them killed in the first tavern, considering the combat system.

Could you give me some tips to handle the adventures speaking about Combat? It sounds like a dumb question cause it's something usual for you, but, as my first session, I don't know how often you use the Damage Reduction, I don't know if a battle should last for 2, 3 or maybe 10 rounds and that kind of things. Hope you can help to shape this thing.

 

[argo]

BTW, it seems that I got it right, but I'm worried to give the players an adventure ala D&D and get them killed in the first tavern, considering the combat system.

Could you give me some tips to handle the adventures speaking about Combat? It sounds like a dumb question cause it's something usual for you, but, as my first session, I don't know how often you use the Damage Reduction, I don't know if a battle should last for 2, 3 or maybe 10 rounds and that kind of things. Hope you can help to shape this thing.

First, you throw them up against as many and as difficult opponents as you can. Then, when they eventually run out of Fate Points, you have them roll up new characters. :twisted:

Ok, seriously now, I'm not telling you to throw your first level characters up against King Conan or anything. But remember that surviving the adventure is your player's responsibility, not yours. And you should never underestimate your sneaky, slipery players. They get to take advantage of massive damge, 2:1 PA, combat manuvers and all the rest to kill the NPC's, and they will.

As far as general advice goes, this is one good idea that I get a lot of use out of. When you make an encounter with a mob of mooks, plan for they to arrive in waves. Then when the second or third wave arrives you can evaluate the situation and decide if you want to send in a couple more waves or if this will be enough. Your players will never know the difference.

I usually shoot for combats to last 3-6 round, much more and it drags on all night.

Maybe I'll think of some more good tidbits later.

Hope that helps.

 

[Bregales]

Thanks you all! I'm almost done with the basis, I'm going to start with Sorcery today so it seems that we'll start pretty soon, maybe a couple of weeks.

BTW, it seems that I got it right, but I'm worried to give the players an adventure ala D&D and get them killed in the first tavern, considering the combat system.

Could you give me some tips to handle the adventures speaking about Combat? It sounds like a dumb question cause it's something usual for you, but, as my first session, I don't know how often you use the Damage Reduction, I don't know if a battle should last for 2, 3 or maybe 10 rounds and that kind of things. Hope you can help to shape this thing.

First, I'd recommend that if you haven't already downloaded them, that you go to the Conan page and click on the NPC Sheets - Instant random characters for the Conan RPG (299 Kb), in the Free Downloads section below the product images.

As far as combat, I'd still recommend what I wrote you earlier, that you try sample combats before the other players introduce their characters in a first episode session. IMO they may even change character concepts after trying a couple random fights. One idea is if you make up random characters and hand them to the players and set up a fight situation (i.e., 4 characters: a barbarian, 2 soldiers and a thief) and set them up in a city alleyway, or a large temple room (200 by 100 feet) with pillars in 2 columns on either side and one open entryway and a door at opposite end, place them randomly in the situation and say, "Okay, the two soldiers are trying to take out the barbarian and the thief" and you coach them or advise them as to how combat works, maybe advise them on the strengths and weaknesses of the character class. This helps you get familiar with how to create characters and you all get used to how they work. ~~Tell them right off that this is just an exercise, getting used to a different combat approach for the new game, and they don't have to worry whether the characters they're running die or not, this is just a trial.

In my first several adventures with my Saturday group, we only involved between 1 and 3 combats in the whole night, the rest was role-playing, problem-solving, or trying to get to the person(s) they wanted to kill.

As for adventures in general, I was a fan of the Howard story setup from my first DnD game 25 years ago. I love to start an adventure en medias res. I have them learn the background of the adventure, or where they are, what they're doing or running from or fighting, as I start them off. I enjoy suspense and tension which the players feel, when successful the player tension is directly transcribed to their character's tension as they're trying to get out of the jam they find themselves in. This sets the game up with an opening combat or if not combat then a general action. Then the characters, after they've learned what got them into their current situation, either try to get out of the dilemna, or go off in another route, or try to pass the blame on to someone else. There may or may not be an encounter with henchmen along the way, which should be a basic combat not taxing the party's resources (hp, arrows, etc) too much, but still give them something to fight. And then it builds to a climax where they finally get to fight the big bad guy. This is probably the most involved, longest-running combat encounter of the whole session.

If you use a 3-combat adventure, the opening combat should take a while to resolve and may wear them down a little but shouldn't get them killed. Fighting mooks along the way should slow them down but probably not kill them. The big bad boss guy at the climax should be at least their own level if not of higher levels than the highest-level PC in the group, so that they must all work together to defeat him. The big bad boss guy may or may not kill one or more PCs, but the PCs should believe that if they play smart/lucky/whatever, that they'll be able to kill him and get out of it alive.

Hope this helps. I'm running out of steam typing all this now. 8)

 

[urdinaran]

For the first adventure I ran my group through, I had them attack a group of 1st level soldiers, just so they could get used to the combat system. Worked out well for them; 1 PC went to negative HP's, but recuperated just fine.

The differences between Conan and 3.5 aren't that great, just a few things to remember: Characters have a few more options when it comes to combat. Whether to use Dodge or Parry for Defense, whether to use normal melee attack or possibly go for a finesse attack. You WILL have to remember about DR and AP values, but that's not hard. Also (one I always forget) the 2nd and subsequent attackers getting +'s to hit the same target in the same round.

As for being able to hit all the time, eh. Last session, my group started whooping up on some mooks (1st level npc cultists, 5 hp each) and did real good at the beginning, but half way through they started missing. When the mooks hit, they were only doing 1 hp of non-lethal due to DR, but that starts adding up. Combat is much more interesting in Conan than in 3.5 in my opinion.

 

[Bregales]

Good points there. Also, Attacks of Opportunity have been talked about in numerous threads way back in the halls of this forum, but I just want to make sure you didn't gloss over those, as there are some noticable differences in Conan game compared to DnD 3.x. :shock:

 

[Vincent791]

OK Another question about combat, I read this about Defense Value:

(DV) 10 + size modifier + Parry/Dodge bonus
Page 158 and 159.

I don't know if it should be like this:

(DV)10 + size modifier + Parry/Dodge bonus + Bonus Modifier (Attributes)


Thanks! BTW, I'll have to make a new thread speaking about Magic

 

[Trodax]

OK Another question about combat, I read this about Defense Value:

(DV) 10 + size modifier + Parry/Dodge bonus
Page 158 and 159.

I don't know if it should be like this:

(DV)10 + size modifier + Parry/Dodge bonus + Bonus Modifier (Attributes)

Yeah, you're right; the ability modifier should be included in DV.
In the edition I have (AE), it says like this:

Base Defence = 10 + size modifier

Dodge Defence = Base Defence + Dexterity Bonus + Dodge Bonus

Parry Defence = Base Defence + Strength Bonus + Parry Bonus

Hope that helps.

 

[Vincent791]

Thanks! Now it doesn't look that easy to hit an enemy as it was without that bonus.

 

[Turim]

Hope that helps.

Perhaps you should prepare for a copyright lawsuit from argo's lawyer .

 

[Trodax]

Hope that helps.

Perhaps you should prepare for a copyright lawsuit from argo's lawyer .

Dammit, you're right.
I shall commence lawsuit preparations immediately. I'll be ready for him. 8)