toothill man
Mongoose
intreasting point raven the dreamers dreams can sometimes be more real than real life know this as have been keeping a dream diary since 1990 and dreams is a strange realm 8)
Howard, Tolkien and Lovecraft Comparative Studies
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Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
Tolkien as far as I know never claimed such dreams though.
Interesting point- when I read the accounts of some fo Lovecraft's RL dreams I recognized a dreamscape he had described as being one I had dreamed of years before.....
Interesting point- when I read the accounts of some fo Lovecraft's RL dreams I recognized a dreamscape he had described as being one I had dreamed of years before.....
Prime_Evil
Emperor Mongoose
Tolkien often stated that the drowning of Númenor in the Silmarillion was inspired by a recurring dream that he had. This dream featured a great wave that swept over a pastoral landscape, drowning the countryside. Tolkien drew some obvious parallels between this dream and Plato's description of the drowning of Atlantis. Thus, he created an island nation (Númenor) that was the seat of a mighty civilisation. Like Atlantis, Númenor sank beneath the waves because its inhabitants meddled with forces that were better left alone.
Tolkien also borrowed from biblical narratives in his account of the destruction of Númenor. His description of the event has strong echoes of the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Old Testament. In this story, God instructs his faithful follower (Lot) to abandon the city of Sodom before destroying it in an apocalyptic manner.
In Tolkein's description of the fall of Númenor, the destruction of the island was triggered by the decision of King Ar-Pharazôn to build a fleet in order to assail Valinor. Only a handful faithful Númenoreans escape the destruction of the island, led by Elendil and his sons, Isildur and Anárion. They go on to found the twin kingdoms of found the Kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor in Middle-Earth.
It looks like Tolkien took a powerful image from a dream, mixed it from material that he derived from various mythological and biblical sources, creating something that was new. This is not very different from the way that Howard and Lovecraft worked. Dreams may have provided them with the raw imagery that makes their work so powerful, but they would mix these images with material drived from other literary sources.
Tolkien also borrowed from biblical narratives in his account of the destruction of Númenor. His description of the event has strong echoes of the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Old Testament. In this story, God instructs his faithful follower (Lot) to abandon the city of Sodom before destroying it in an apocalyptic manner.
In Tolkein's description of the fall of Númenor, the destruction of the island was triggered by the decision of King Ar-Pharazôn to build a fleet in order to assail Valinor. Only a handful faithful Númenoreans escape the destruction of the island, led by Elendil and his sons, Isildur and Anárion. They go on to found the twin kingdoms of found the Kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor in Middle-Earth.
It looks like Tolkien took a powerful image from a dream, mixed it from material that he derived from various mythological and biblical sources, creating something that was new. This is not very different from the way that Howard and Lovecraft worked. Dreams may have provided them with the raw imagery that makes their work so powerful, but they would mix these images with material drived from other literary sources.
toothill man
Mongoose
in lovecrafts case more like nightmares :shock: but intreasting point that dreams had a major part in papa tolkiens world as in lovecrafts or howards anyone got any howard examples of dreams he used for writing 8)
toothill man
Mongoose
we mainly talk about the big three but please throw in who ever else to show a point 
toothill man
Mongoose
one of my favourite threads so will not let it die
Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
I have content to come, just not time enough to post. I'll be back
toothill man
Mongoose
thank you for the promised work raven this thread is a good one and worth fighting for 8)
Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
Charles Ashton Smith, for being one of the three founders of 'weird [or cosmic] fiction' is woefully overlooked. I've only managed to find a few stories of his and liked them, but can't find more stories or non-fiction about him. Anyone have a direction to look in?
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Raven Blackwell said:
That is because his name is Clark Ashton Smith. I have several volumes of his short stories. He is an amazing author.
After he gave up writing, he became a painter, IIRC.
Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
VincentDarlage said:
Silly me- need to spell check my entries better.
He gave it up? You mean this affliction can be cured? 8)
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Raven Blackwell said:
He was born in 1893, wrote poetry until 1925, wrote weird fiction from 1926-1935 (9 years), then became a sculptor until he died in 1961.
A lot of his stories can be found on Eldritch Dark.
Ant
Mongoose
VincentDarlage said:
The King said:
Eldritch Dark presents, I think, all of his stories that are not in print... The Gollancz Masterworks omnibus that The King linked to appears to be the only collection currently in print. Older collections might be found via sites like abebooks.
Ciao,
Ant
PS. And of course, CAS wrote Cthulhu stories just like HPL and REH: they were all correspondents.
toothill man
Mongoose
part of the best circle ever of writers cannot think of another circle that has had such a effect on the world and as a reader on me 8) can anyone tell me the full list of members or a link to one 8)
Prime_Evil
Emperor Mongoose
I'm a huge fan of Clark Ashton Smith's work. In may ways, he is my favorite of the authors who contributed to Weird Tales in its golden days. The recent collection of his works that was issued by Gollancz Fantasy Masterworks is a good starting point if you are unfamiliar with Smith's work, but it omits a number of his best stories and includes a number of stories that are definitely below par. It also neglects Smith's poetry, much of which was of a high quality.
Chaosium has recently published 'The Tsathoggua Cycle', which collects various short stories by Smith that tie in with the Cthulhu mythos of H.P. Lovecraft and his successors. This volume also includes a number of short stories by other authors who were inspired by the works of Clark Ashton Smith.
In 2003, Arkham House reissued many of Smith's best short stories in the collection entitled 'A Rendezvous in Averoigne', which I believe is still available. The introduction to this volume was written by none other than Ray Bradbury.
However, the most exciting news for fans of Clark Ashton Smith's work is that Nightshade Books will soon release a five volume hardcover collection collecting pretty much all of Smith's fantasy short stories. The editors are going back to Smith's original manuscripts in an attempt to produce the definitive edition of his works. The end product won't be cheap, but I'm a real sucker for this kind of thing.
Chaosium has recently published 'The Tsathoggua Cycle', which collects various short stories by Smith that tie in with the Cthulhu mythos of H.P. Lovecraft and his successors. This volume also includes a number of short stories by other authors who were inspired by the works of Clark Ashton Smith.
In 2003, Arkham House reissued many of Smith's best short stories in the collection entitled 'A Rendezvous in Averoigne', which I believe is still available. The introduction to this volume was written by none other than Ray Bradbury.
However, the most exciting news for fans of Clark Ashton Smith's work is that Nightshade Books will soon release a five volume hardcover collection collecting pretty much all of Smith's fantasy short stories. The editors are going back to Smith's original manuscripts in an attempt to produce the definitive edition of his works. The end product won't be cheap, but I'm a real sucker for this kind of thing.
Prime_Evil
Emperor Mongoose
toothill man said:
If you enjoy the works of Robert E. Howard, H.P. Lovecraft, and Clark Ashton Smith, you might like to check out some of the other authors who produced pulp fantasy during this era. Of particular note are the following authors:
Fritz Leiber: Leiber's tales of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser include some of the best fantasy stories ever written. It's hard to believe that Leiber's career stretched from the 1930's until the late 1980's. I recommend starting out with the Hugo award-winning short story "Ill Met in Lankhmar". It's amazing how many of the cliches of old school D&D are derived from this one story.
Catherine L. Moore: Best known for her wonderful tales of the swordswoman Jirel of Joiry, C. L. Moore was one of the best stylists that the pulp era produced. The Jirel series should be compulsory reading for anybody who wants to play a 'Red Sonja' style amazon in the Conan RPG (along with Robert E. Howard's own stories of Dark Agnes, of course). C.L. Moore also wrote a number of superb science fiction stories featuring the hard-bitten anti-hero Northwest Smith -- the direct literary ancestor of Han Solo.
Leigh Brackett: Another important female writer of the pulp era, Brackett's work has been sadly neglected in recent years, despite having vocal admirers like Michael Moorcock. (Indeed, Michael Moorcock once wrote that 'Anyone who thinks they're pinching one of my ideas is probably pinching one of hers.'). Leigh Brackett was a contemporary of Robert E. Howard and exchanged a number of letters with him.
These days Leigh Brackett is best remembered for her work as a screenwriter in Hollywood -- notably the script for hard-boiled detective film The Big Sleep with Humphrey Bogart and Laren Bacall. In the late 1970's she was contacted by George Lucas to write the script for The Empire Strikes Back -- a work that she completed while dying of cancer. (She died before the finished film was released and Lucas publicly dedicated it to her memory).
As a fantasy author, Brackett is best known for sword and sorcery tales set on Mars. Her novel the The Sword of Rhiannon is particularly recommended. Brackett also wrote some very evocative short stories such as The Enchantress of Venus and The Last Days of Shandakor. If you can find it, I strongly recommend picking up the collection of her short stories entitled 'The Best of Leigh Brackett' that was edited by her husband (Science Fiction writer Edmond Hamilton).
Recently, Gollancz reissued most of Brackett's best stories as part of their Fantasy Masterworks series in a paperback volume entitled 'Sea Kings of Mars and Otherworldly Stories', but I haven't been fortunate enough to snag a copy yet.
Abraham Merritt: The works of Abraham Merritt were extremely popular during the pulp era and still have a strong following today. Most of Abraham Merritt's best work can perhaps best be described as 'H.P. Lovecraft meets Indiana Jones'. His best stories feature lost races in forgotten corners of the world (Tibet, Peru, Mongolia, etc) and eldritch horrors from beyond time and space. Merritt's characters are often cliched, but his descriptions of supernatural evil are impressive and his stories tend to be ripping good adventure yarns. Gary Gygax often cites Abraham Merritt as one of his favourite authors, and his influence can clearly be seen on a number of the classic D&D modules (especially the original Drow D1-D3 series and the Temple of Elemental Evil). The best works of Abraham Merritt include The Moon Pool, The Face in the Abyss, Dwellers in the Mirage, The Ship of Ishtar, and Creep, Shadow, Creep!. Some of Merritt's older work has recently fallen out of copyright and is available online. For example, the Moon Pool is now available through Project Gutenberg
toothill man
Mongoose
wow :shock: thank you for that how many members were their and have any others been missed 8)
toothill man
Mongoose
oh and welcome to the boards old boy
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