How to start a rebellion ?

locarno24 said:
Are there any permentantly stationed state B orbital assets or ships ?
Only satellites, although there is a squadron of space capable fighters
able to react rather quickly to any information discovered by the satel-
lites. While both the urban environment of the cities and the dense fo-
rest of the hinterland provide some protection from the fighters, the
player characters will have to come up with a way to disable the satel-
lites or their control center at least temporarily to make the landing of
supplies or personnel for the resistance movement possible.
 
alex_greene said:
Keep it simple. It's okay to make the characters sweat and occasionally jump out of their seats once in a while, but you're never going to win popularity points if you're just going to turn every scenario into a TPK grindhouse.
No serious problem there, the commerce raiders of this setting
adhere to the rules of war and do not destroy merchant ships
out of hand. The problem for the player characters would be to
convince the captain of the commerce raider that they really
are what they claim to be, representatives of a real resistance
movement - they are not in danger of immediate elimination,
only of ending up in an internment camp instead of at a nego-
tiation table.
 
Actually, I think the crux of a successful resistance movement, given the circumstance is science. To be specific, rocket science.

No, I'm not kidding.

By TL8/9 ... it's actually difficult but not impossible for a civilization to get a rocket into orbit. It's also useful for much shorter-ranged rockets. Of course, you can put an explosive warhead on a rocket and it becomes a weapon. If you put a guidance system on the rocket, it becomes a missile. Various militant groups in the Gaza Strip are able to make their own (primitive) anti-tank rockets and that's with a shoestring technology level probably around TL5 or TL6. At TL8/9 everything we're building in "first world" countries is possible.

In our own modern world (which is arguably TL8/9 in many areas), only a handful of countries on Earth have the capacity of getting rockets into orbit reliably since it takes time to develop the expertise that goes along with the technology to get stuff into orbit. However, in a world where TL8/9 exists on a colony because it is below the median technology level of the universe, more reliable rocketry technology might exist as a turnkey solution for various purposes.

Given widespread support in the cities where industry exists, rocket parts could be made surreptitiously. From there, it'll be necessary to test the rocket engines and build a launch base and so on. Now, many of you reading this, with the idealized 21st century view of technology would pretty quickly deem it impossible given the realities Remote-Piloted Vehicles and Orbital Reconnaissance. I'd agree that in theory that's true. In practice, I think it's a very different ball-game. A colony of 500,000, mostly in the cities. Assuming the world is about the size of Earth, that's 500,000 people living in total on Earth, concentrated primarily in cities. Depending on the pattern of settlement, it's not inconceivable that an entire hemisphere is totally uninhabited. Even if the cities are spread out over the world equidistantly (for whatever reason), it still leaves vast tracts of the world pretty much uninhabited. This is important, since the occupation forces basically have zero interest in anywhere that their subject peoples don't live. It's "practical" for the occupier who can be assumed to have limited resources.

So here's my proposal: Assuming that the occupation forces, even using electronic surveillance and other force multipliers still cannot totally lock down the cities. Sympathetic native police can probably be persuaded to look the other way. An estimated number of people, say about 50 with the proper mix of scientific and technical skills need to be smuggled out of the city. My proposal would be to set a fire and fake their deaths, at a chemical refinery. It's important to make it look like this is an accident as opposed to terrorism/resistance. Given the high heat, many bodies will never be found, of course.

These people would be smuggled out of the city, with the rest of the support drawn from outlying farming communities (where it can be assumed that control of the population is probably not as tight). These farmer types are important as they'd have the skills to navigate and operate off-road vehicles or boats. This team would go and out and set up the hidden bunker complex the most extremely remote area of the world (as far as human settlement goes) for the facilities to test rocket engines, do small test launches and so on. Ideally the rocket engines and similar materials could be clandestinely made in the cities and shipped out.

Once this ground-based ad-hoc surface-to-orbit missile is viable, they can move to mass production, as much as they can manage, and start creeping their launching sites back towards civilization. The point is to start denying as much of low orbit to spacecraft as possible. While a full modern space fleet would laugh at such primitive missiles, chances are State B is not going to have such modern warships that are sorely needed elsewhere. Chances are there's only going to be a single warship or a few second or third line warships, probably in the "gunboat" or "frigate" range. And long before then, these missiles will be able to knock spy satellites out of orbit. What the missiles might lack in modern technology can be made up using swarm attacks of many missiles. Shooting down or heavily damaging the single naval warship, and showing the world has the capacity to keep building such missiles at a high rate is going to be pretty discouraging to a military that could use such expensive, difficult to replace warships elsewhere. Such missiles can also threaten the fat, slow, poorly defended freighters that come to pick up the refined metals.

Such missiles can also be used as ballistic missiles. If things like orbital catapults are used to get the metals into orbit, they can be used to bombard the catapult site. Same story for a spaceplane field. Shorter ranged rockets can be used to shoot down things such as RPVs and jet fighters, and helicopters (all likely, given the desire of the mining corporation to keep things cheap). More high-tech front-line fighters might be detailed, but even primitive missiles will get lucky and a missile with a 5% chance of hitting is going to scare fighter pilots when the resistance can fire them twenty at time...

EDIT: I should add before someone asks "how are you going to get guidance in there" that it's important to remember when you have a large portion of the technical, civilian population at least passively helping you, many technologies that seem harmless to an occupier can be repurposed. For instance, a modern infra-red security system, the type that is used to both check for fires as well as keep watch for intruders is a pretty discerning system. It's not that difficult to retask such technology to make a missile seeker that could differentiate between the hot radiator fins of a fusion reactor aboard a starship or the jet exhaust of a fighter and that of a distraction flare or the sun. The RADAR that the police use to track speeding vehicles is in theory not too hard to scale up shoot hypervelocity "dumb" missiles useful to shoot down aircraft with good countermeasures.
 
Epicenter said:
Actually, I think the crux of a successful resistance movement, given the circumstance is science. To be specific, rocket science.
(...)
A very interesting idea - thank you very much for it. :D

The test launches of the resistance movement's rockets would probably
be detected by the occupation force's satellites, so the lauch facilities
would have to be mobile to avoid destruction, and there would not be
much surprise when the first rockets are finally used against their tar-
gets, but the rockets could still become the most efficient weapons of
the resistance movement, especially when they are able to take out sa-
tellites and thereby make it almost impossible for the occupation forces
to gather intelligence informations about what is going on outside of the
cities, like major guerilla troop movements or even supply landings from
orbit. I am not convinced that the "home grown" rockets would be able
to seriously damage a starship or even a battle tank, but a primitive ty-
pe of "Katyusha" rocket launcher could prove to be very dangerous for
the enemy ground forces and their light vehicles.
 
rust said:
Only satellites, although there is a squadron of space capable fighters
able to react rather quickly to any information discovered by the satel-
lites. While both the urban environment of the cities and the dense fo-
rest of the hinterland provide some protection from the fighters, the
player characters will have to come up with a way to disable the satel-
lites or their control center at least temporarily to make the landing of
supplies or personnel for the resistance movement possible.

Commandeer the fighters and use those to take out the satellites?

Some sort of electronic jamming?

Sabotage the ground stations that receive the satellite signals?

Hack the computers controlling the satellites and have them crash into each other?
 
Fancy tech always ends up as the first casualty of a conquered nation - those in charge do not want anyone to obtain the technologies which enable them the means to free themselves or, otherwise, to destroy the oppressors.

Under such circumstances, the tech toys of any rebellion would probably be restricted to about TL 6, tops - Molotovs versus tanks, water cannon, fire hoses, tear gas, rubber bullets, minor espionage, agents provocateurs, sabotage, infiltration of groups on both sides, barricades, riot police.

Only ...

What if the rebels obtained the same tools as the riot cops?

What if, in the course of their actions, the characters stumble across a police stockpile of CS gas grenades, electric charged riot shields, stun batons, gas masks, helmets, personnel carriers with water cannons, earplugs and screamers?

And what if, for the sake of fun, they armed the rebels with the same tools the cops use, taught them kettling, used Tactics and Leadership and disciplined them to fight as efficiently as their oppressors?

Have fun, kids. Roll initiative.
 
rust said:
The test launches of the resistance movement's rockets would probably
be detected by the occupation force's satellites, so the lauch facilities
would have to be mobile to avoid destruction

That's actually what I doubt in particular. An occupying force isn't going to expend that much effort in putting satellites over parts of the world where nobody lives. A half million persons on a surface of the Earth. Most of the citizens are already concentrated in the cities. The farmers probably not far from that. I am going to guess with a population relatively small like that, the cities aren't even too far from each other - like settlements within a few thousands kilometers of each other. That means that the occupiers could probably concentrate their satellites (about 3-4 of them) on one hemisphere of the world. This is more economical than putting up a galaxy of satellites to watch the entire world.

Even if there is surveillance in the far backwoods of the world, it may very well be cursory - satellites may make predictable passes over the world which can be timed and waited for. Rocket engine tests can be made during cloudy days, and then a forest fire started afterwards. Lightning strike forest fires are not uncommon on worlds and if one starts deep in an area where nobody lives, nobody is going to think anything of it. Similarly tests might be made out at sea where there's very little lingering evidence if it isn't being observed at that moment.

alex_greene said:
Fancy tech always ends up as the first casualty of a conquered nation - those in charge do not want anyone to obtain the technologies which enable them the means to free themselves or, otherwise, to destroy the oppressors.

I'm not sure how easy it is to really technology. I can't really think of a modern example of fancy technology being banned or controlled in an occupied nation. On 21st century Earth, our world's current wars/resistance/terrorism (depending on your political POV) occur in relatively poor, often previously fought-over lands with damaged infrastructure. The primary thing is that technology permeation in these societies is relatively uneven. Nevertheless, what technology can be imported from outside sources, such as cellphones and laptops are used pretty extensively, often in ways the manufacturers didn't imagine (cellphones as detonators for bombs). While I can imagine State B attempting (pretty successfully) to interdict technology getting to this world, I have serious doubts if they can simply ban all technology that might have militarized use.
 
Epicenter said:
alex_greene said:
Fancy tech always ends up as the first casualty of a conquered nation - those in charge do not want anyone to obtain the technologies which enable them the means to free themselves or, otherwise, to destroy the oppressors.
I'm not sure how easy it is to really technology. I can't really think of a modern example of fancy technology being banned or controlled in an occupied nation. On 21st century Earth, our world's current wars/resistance/terrorism (depending on your political POV) occur in relatively poor, often previously fought-over lands with damaged infrastructure. The primary thing is that technology permeation in these societies is relatively uneven. Nevertheless, what technology can be imported from outside sources, such as cellphones and laptops are used pretty extensively, often in ways the manufacturers didn't imagine (cellphones as detonators for bombs). While I can imagine State B attempting (pretty successfully) to interdict technology getting to this world, I have serious doubts if they can simply ban all technology that might have militarized use.
They can control the means of production and place chokepoints on all borders restricting the inflow of technology.

At the very worst, they can concentrate all internet traffic, for instance, through one data pipeline - and at a command from central HQ, they send out a soldier to literally cut off the line.
 
AndrewW said:
Commandeer the fighters and use those to take out the satellites?
I doubt that a player would create a character with the necessary set
of skills for this, because this would be a somewhat unusual colonist
and probably not a very useful character for all the other parts of the
campaign.
Some sort of electronic jamming?
Quite possible, although the source of the jamming could probably be
located and destroyed rather quickly.
Sabotage the ground stations that receive the satellite signals?
Knowing the players, if I had to bet I would put my money on this one,
probably with a truckload of explosives used to take out either the con-
trol center or its power supply, whatever is easier to get to.
Hack the computers controlling the satellites and have them crash into each other?
Provided there is a player character with the required skills, this would
of course also be an option, although I think that burning up the satel-
lites by sending them down into the atmosphere would be an easier way.
 
alex_greene said:
Fancy tech always ends up as the first casualty of a conquered nation - those in charge do not want anyone to obtain the technologies which enable them the means to free themselves or, otherwise, to destroy the oppressors.
True, but on the other hand it would be difficult for the occupation
forces to confiscate all the potentially dangerous technology that is
already on the planet. Provided some members of the resistance
movement have the necessary knowledge and skills, or at least ac-
cess to the necessary sources to research the knowledge and learn
the skills, the occupation forces will hardly be able to suppress "re-
sistance technology" - and the fact that much of it will be unpredic-
table "home grown non-standard" technology does not make it ea-
sier to deal with it.
 
Epicenter said:
That's actually what I doubt in particular.
(...)
While the occupation force's propaganda will claim that the satellites
can see whatever is going on anywhere on the planet ("Resistance is
futile ..."), the characters cannot know for sure what the satellites can
detect or not, they can either "test" the satellites or trust their luck.

This seems to be a problem where I will have to make a decision as
the game's referee. I think I would give the satellites a small chance
(for example 5 %) to detect the first rocket launch by the resistance
movement, and if the satellites do not detect it, I would reduce that
chance by 1 % for each successive launch - after 5 launches without
a detection it would be safe to assume that the satellites are unable
to spot the launches. The chance of detection would increase again
after the first combat use of a rocket, when the satellite system be-
gins to actively search for the launch sites which are then known to
exist.
 
rust said:
I doubt that a player would create a character with the necessary set
of skills for this, because this would be a somewhat unusual colonist
and probably not a very useful character for all the other parts of the
campaign.

Well, could be an NPC that does the actual piloting while the characters help acquire the fighter.

rust said:
Provided there is a player character with the required skills, this would
of course also be an option, although I think that burning up the satel-
lites by sending them down into the atmosphere would be an easier way.

That could do the trick as well.
 
rust said:
While the occupation force's propaganda will claim that the satellites
can see whatever is going on anywhere on the planet ("Resistance is
futile ..."), the characters cannot know for sure what the satellites can
detect or not, they can either "test" the satellites or trust their luck.

Or seek to aquire the information on satellite coverage by espionage or some other means. Of course the information they gain may not be entirely accurate...
 
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