How far do Ship sensors work to?

[AnotherDilbert]

However, that's not how the rules work.

Agreed.

In the rules, passive sensors are nearly useless and give no information beyond 10k. So if you don't light yourself up, you are basically blind. Active EMS gives info out to 300k and beyond.

Thermal (passive) is more or less as good as Active EMS at range, and will not give away your position.

 

[tytalan]

The standard way tech works in Traveller is that it is built at the TL of the manufacturing system even if it is otherwise identical. A TL 15 computer may have the same stats at a TL 9 computer of the same rating, but it is still a TL 15 computer. A TL 15 military sensor suite may be only a +0 bonus, but it counts as TL 15 for comparison to a military sensor suite on a TL 10 ship.

Stuff only gets more expensive if it has additional features and capabilities. You aren't required to apply upgrades with higher tech level. You just *can* if you want to pay for them.

Computers are special it states that they are the tech of the ship because some software has a tech level requirement but other things are not going to be upgraded unless there a performance increase. Unless you modify it a J-Drive 1 is going to be the same at TL9 as it is at TL15 because that’s how engineering works we have many systems that are the same today as they where 100 years ago because it doesn’t make sense to change them. This is even more true in Traveller where there are so many different TLs. A Freetrader might be built on a TL12 world but it’s jump drive is going to be the same exact drive as the built at a TL9 world because if nothing else that Freetrader might need a replacement drive after landing on that TL9 world. The sensors table list 3 grades of military sensor this indicates that there is no significant changes between TL10 and TL11 for example.

 

[Vormaerin]

That's flat out not true. For instance, the Detection Table has a +1 DM per TL advantage of the SHIP to detect other ships. And the stealth coating gets an additional - for the TL of the SHIP. In both cases, it specifically states ship.

Your position is that a TL15 ship with military grade sensors against a TL14 Advanced Stealth ship would get a +1 for being TL15 vs a TL14 ship, but suffer a -4 for having "TL 10" military sensors against a TL14 ship.

I don't believe that is the intention of the rule. And if it is, it's stupid AF.

Civilian/military/improved/advanced tell you what types of sensors you have and the base DM vs comparable ships. The TL of the gear is based on the TL of the shipyard it was built in.

 

[tytalan]

That's flat out not true. For instance, the Detection Table has a +1 DM per TL advantage of the SHIP to detect other ships. And the stealth coating gets an additional - for the TL of the SHIP. In both cases, it specifically states ship.

Your position is that a TL15 ship with military grade sensors against a TL14 Advanced Stealth ship would get a +1 for being TL15 vs a TL14 ship, but suffer a -4 for having "TL 10" military sensors against a TL14 ship.

I don't believe that is the intention of the rule. And if it is, it's stupid AF.

Civilian/military/improved/advanced tell you what types of sensors you have and the base DM vs comparable ships. The TL of the gear is based on the TL of the shipyard it was built in.

Civilian/military/improved/advanced is much more than the type of sensor. If you actually check any TL15 warship has Advanced military sensors your statement that they would only have military is stupid AF

There are very good reason for most none military ships to not be at max shipyard TL as I point out. Also it’s not uncommon for systems not to advance when TL advances.

 

[Vormaerin]

Every time it asks for a TL comparison in Traveller it is the Ship's tech level. That's why they don't have different grades of +0 sensors at each TL. Similarly, there is the Offensive and Defensive DMs for ships in fleet combat that is based on the *ship's* TL. That modifier applies whether they have all pulse lasers (TL 8 minimum) or all fusion guns (TL14). Computers are specifically called out as operating at the Ship's TL because non die roll applications for having a higher operating TL in that case, so the effect is not already built in elsewhere.

Both the regular and stealthed ships detection table have this line:



The phrasing on the description of the stealth coating is: "Apply an additional DM-1 for every Tech Level the ship is higher than the sensors trying to locate it." Why is the TL of the ship used on one side (stealth) and not on the other (sensors) unlike every other place in the game TL is compared? That leads to the situation where a TL 15 stealth ship with basic coating gets an additional -5 DM from its TL against a TL 15 ship with Military sensors, because you think the ship's TL applies instead of the basic stealth coating's TL 8, but the detecting ship counts the military sensors minimum TL 10 not the ship's overall TL.

There is literally nowhere in any discussion of a ship's TL for comparison purposes where it is the specific component's minimum TL that applies, not the ship's overall TL, except in your interpretation of this one sentence.

Anyway, I've said my piece. We can and will each run it however we want. Agree to disagree and all that.

 

[Condottiere]

What is the term, a dog's breakfast?

I can't figure out if I just have the bridge module constructed at a specific (higher) technological level shipyard, if it applies if I have the the spacecraft assembled at a lower one.