How many armed ships are there in your setting?

[Anonymous]

Which would figure in with the idea of paying for an armed escort to be waiting for you as you left jump, reduce the subscription paid when you go for a service that has 1 escort per x merchants.

My nautical knowledge (and search fu) is somewhat limited, can someone please point me to a source of info on conveying?

 

[sideranautae]

Which would figure in with the idea of paying for an armed escort to be waiting for you as you left jump, reduce the subscription paid when you go for a service that has 1 escort per x merchants.

If you examine the MGT jump procedures closely you will see that it is difficult to have someone waiting for you at the end of jump. You may end up a LONG way from your intended break out point...

 

[Anonymous]

If you examine the MGT jump procedures closely you will see that it is difficult to have someone waiting for you at the end of jump. You may end up a LONG way from your intended break out point...

I'm familiar with the jump rules and while I made no reference to them in the post the issue I think you're referring to is an inaccurate jump. The jump duration should also affect the location you arrive at on exiting jump as the universe is moving but the rules don't simulate to this degree of detail so I'm ignoring that! Likewise, page 141 of CRB doesn't specify where an inaccurate jump leaves you other than in the inner system somewhere, plenty of room for house rules and plenty of room to be missed by anyone - no pirate can make a living from guessing where the target ship will be when it suffers an inaccurate jump, there's simply too much space. With regard to the 6d6 or variation in the jump duration, the escorting ships would be on station knowing that the time couldn't be predicted. For the merchant ship to be sure of it's escort would mean it putting more effort into an accurate jump: better engineers for the power divert, expert programmes to assist, refined fuel etc.

I've been following your thread on verisimilitude but not commented, not cos I think it's a can of worms, I don't but it's a huge topic and I'm stumped on where to start. Anyway, here goes...

To mix threads a little...

The OTU has by default armed merchant ships. I'd argue it does so for gaming reasons, cos the designers wanted to incorporate inter ship battles in space. Fair enough, it's about making a game but is it believable? No, not to me.

Keeping with my earlier statement, a merchant is in business to trade not fight. Using the current day analogy (yes, I know that's sketchy at best) merchants rely on a policed route to operate cost effectively. Its the agreement between the tax paying masses and the government: protection racketeering if you will but it is what it is. Having armed merchants threatens "people": "We're fine with you coming to our port bearing goods to trade but if you're here to exert your will by force, you aren't welcome."

An armed ship can be interpreted as projecting hostility. It's just one interpretation I know and a very simple interpretation but referencing Infojunky's post here:

They vary from country to country. Often it is illegal for foreign flagged vessels to have arms aboard while in territorial waters.

As I understand it there are only 3 or 4 Armed Merchantmen currently in operation right now and all of them are Nuclear Materials Transports.

Also Note that Having Armed Guards aboard is a big issue in the Maritime trade right now as per my 1st sentence.

When you turn up at someone else's party armed its a reasonable question on the part of the host: "What? You don't trust my home? You're only equipped to defend yourself? Why should I believe that?". There are plenty of real world comparisons to be made that can demonstrate admirably why you shouldn't trust someone's "home" and you still don't get to walk in there armed to the teeth. By introducing that area of grey you're getting great RP material - conflict or the potential for it.

If you jump badly and end up a long way from anyone, you simply have to suck it up and put the pedal to the metal. It could add tension cos you're out there all alone and it could add boredom cos you're out there all alone. But you're unlikely to meet anyone, hostile or otherwise and so as far as getting to port safe and sound, it's job done.

 

[sideranautae]

I'm familiar with the jump rules and while I made no reference to them in the post the issue I think you're referring to is an inaccurate jump. The jump duration should also affect the location you arrive at on exiting jump as the universe is moving but the rules don't simulate to this degree of detail so I'm ignoring that! Likewise, page 141 of CRB doesn't specify where an inaccurate jump leaves you other than in the inner system somewhere, plenty of room for house rules and plenty of room to be missed by anyone - no pirate can make a living from guessing where the target ship will be when it suffers an inaccurate jump,

No need to account for time. Reentering space an hour later than thought doesn't have to mean at a different location relative to the planet. The inaccurate jump DOES give added time to reach the planet so one can extrapolate the distances involved. I have no idea what point you are making with the pirate reference as they don't know where at the 100D limit any ship will be aiming for. But, what the RAW does mean is that the type of convey system you are thinking about WILL be hit and miss. Only by house ruling would it be worth it.

 

[Reynard]

One thing to remember, 'civilized' space will have the resources to have security (police cutters and military SDBs) keeping all but the most determined or desperate pirates and privateers out. The regular traffic would never need weapons or onboard security and save a bundle. This is similar to trade hauling between Europe and the Americas because, where it counts, there are official vessels watching the waters with local coasts as 100 diameter zones. Trouble gets worst when there's no one watching such as along the African coasts and vessels take their chances.

Traveller characters are usually not known for going where it's easy. No real money. They head for opportunity in the wilder places and that means others have too. The chaos and vastness of Traveller space is closer to any time other than the 20th and 21st centuries and nearly every place outside major cities then were near impossible to protect officially. That meant groups and individuals protecting themselves and same goes for Traveller space. Adventurers in armed ships meeting other armed ships is more than logical.

 

[dragoner]

Using modern shipping is also problematic in that the small freighters have mostly gone away, so we are without analog to the "Free Trader" of Traveller.

 

[Condottiere]

Desert caravans going from oasis to oasis, along the Silk Road or more remote places like Timbuktu.

Or less romantically, German merchants dragging their donkeys over the Gotthard Pass to trade in the rich cities of Italy.

 

[Epicenter]

My nautical knowledge (and search fu) is somewhat limited, can someone please point me to a source of info on conveying?

The word "conveying" is throwing you off. When armed guards and merchant vessels are together, the formation is known as a "convoy" a word you're most likely familiar with.

 

[Infojunky]

If only conveying was feasible in Trav.

It is. In the form of a standard Fleet level navigation plot for a coordinated jump.

Great if you are using Fleet as cargo ships. Otherwise useless for the group of Free Trader captains who want to get together for protection.

What's to stop them coordinating their jumps?

 

[sideranautae]

What's to stop them coordinating their jumps?

See MGT rules on jump, time in jump & exit point.

 

[Anonymous]

How or what would you surmise is the cause of the variables in exiting jump and what means could be used to minimise or eradicate them? If ships shared a jump plot or their computers were networked right up to the point of jump? How would you allow ships to jump together?

Thinking back to fleet games like FFW based on a Traveller universe, how did they manage to jump into system en masse? If a fleet jumps together but arrives over the course of hours or even days it could get very messy as the defending force picks the attacker off one at a time. Now maybe they jumped to an RV point away from danger but how long would you need to add to then move I system to your objectives?

 

[hdan]

Because I like a more "operatic" Traveller, I've decided that any world without a TL 8+ base (gravitic technology) is not going to have a reasonable way to police their system, and thus they are unable to prevent piracy.

Of course if there's a Navy base there, then the Imperium will police your space for you, and other bases can imply an off-world defense force of some sort. And for the richest worlds, I allow them to maintain a fleet of system defense fighters or boats that they've bought from a neighbor or megacorp who can build such toys for them.

But the general rule is, below TL-8 and off the X-boat route, and you'd better be on the lookout for pirates.

Consequently almost every ship in MTU is armed, unless they're Subbies that only travel between defended system, or cargo haulers that never leave the civilized areas. That leaves a LOT of room for small armed traders who are willing to take risks.

 

[sideranautae]

Because I like a more "operatic" Traveller, I've decided that any world without a TL 8+ base (gravitic technology) is not going to have a reasonable way to police their system, and thus they are unable to prevent piracy.

Mine starts at TL 9. And at that level they have no artificial grav on-board. Fun times.

 

[Reynard]

Everybody tends to forget the 154 <-169-> 184 hour window though, on the average, most ships do arrive on that middle number. Add in the possibility of an inaccurate jump meaning some unlucky ship(s) are in the wrong place too. This is one reason ships must be maintained and follow all proper procedures to lessen error and always factor in jump times to any coordinated jump.

I have a feeling the mechanics favor tight exits especially with trained personnel. Still, I wonder if fleets play it safe by exiting somewhere they can have a private moment to take a head count, wait for essential lagging ships then move on an objective.

Traders and adventurers have it a little easier since they normally try to be at the 110d mark... most of the time. Also explains buying refined fuel rather than wilderness refueling. Less chance meeting Bubba and his gang in the woods. Explains why they need to be packing. The money ships save by sticking to safe routes and not having arms pays for the fuel at those safe places.

 

[Epicenter]

Because I like a more "operatic" Traveller, I've decided that any world without a TL 8+ base (gravitic technology) is not going to have a reasonable way to police their system, and thus they are unable to prevent piracy.

In a way, this isn't a problem; if you don't take Traveller trade rules by-the-rules, there's less and less reason to visit any world under TL8; the lower the TL, the less reason there is to visit it. Pirates aren't going to hang around a world where potential targets rarely visit the system.

If a low TL system has something worth taking, it's likely that either megacorps, the Navy, or even a local ruler who can grasp the notion of interstellar trade is likely to come up with some method to get local defenses up.

The last option in particular opens itself to a lot of operatic elements. Imagine a ruler on some balkanized TL2 world, not even the most powerful ruler, but one who is savvy enough to gamble on the fact that if he is seen as the "responsible" and most prominent ruler (regardless of his standing on his own world), the Imperium is likely to support him as the world's ruler and secure his position with an patent of Imperial nobility.

His world possesses something worth trading for, if even only in moderate amounts: Artisan items such as goldwork, decorated pottery, handwoven textiles, woodwork and similar items might be fashionable in more settled areas and fetch a reasonable price. A more simple exchange might be that off-world merchants come by and trade high tech (or middle tech) goods in exchange for native mined gold (since gold still seems to have value in Traveller).

The merchant exchange is insufficient to attract the attention of megacorps or the imperial navy but enough free traders come by to trade things for locally mined gold that it has attracted the attention of pirates. The pirates are not strong enough or not wise enough (alternatively, don't have the interest) to use their high-tech ship to simply extort the planet directly, so have only preyed on one or two merchantmen so far. The local ruler is concerned that this will drive away trade so uses local resources to hire offworld mercenaries to keep the world safe. Pilots might have stories about being paid in kilograms of gold and silver trinkets, scented wood boxes filled with gemstones, and similar things.

It might then lead to further situations, where the mercenaries are likely to get involved in local power struggles and so on...

 

[GypsyComet]

What's to stop them coordinating their jumps?

See MGT rules on jump, time in jump & exit point.

In other words, ignorance of the book and/or edition of Traveller that has the Jump Coordination rules.

 

[sideranautae]

What's to stop them coordinating their jumps?

See MGT rules on jump, time in jump & exit point.

In other words, ignorance of the book and/or edition of Traveller that has the Jump Coordination rules.

Which MGT book?

 

[Infojunky]

See MGT rules on jump, time in jump & exit point.

In other words, ignorance of the book and/or edition of Traveller that has the Jump Coordination rules.

Which MGT book?

Actually this looks like a case mining other editions might be the trick. With 30+ years of electronic discussions topics come up discussed and decided as existing without any hard and fast rules for it outside of the specific one supplement. Which often Grognards like myself and others need to remember.

With that maybe we need to start a list of hidden rules that translation in to MgT terms....

 

[sideranautae]

What's to stop them coordinating their jumps?

See MGT rules on jump, time in jump & exit point.

In other words, ignorance of the book and/or edition of Traveller that has the Jump Coordination rules.

Waiting for an answer. Or, were you just being crass?

 

[Condottiere]

Merchants aren't usually fond of convoys, it upsets their schedules and they are limited to the speed of the slowest ship.

However, if they are all armed, regardless of naval escort(s), a single corsair is not going to be able to pick off one of the herd without getting perforated.