How many armed ships are there in your setting?
- Thread starter Infojunky
- Start date
sideranautae
Mongoose
Condottiere said:
True as far as ocean going ships. In Trav, 99.9% of Merchies have only 1G M-drives. You wouldn't put ships going to different systems (requiring different Jumps distances) together in any event. So, not an issue ITU
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Most merchants, but some might have faster manoeuvre drives in order to cut down insystem transit time, especially those with JIT contracts.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
sideranautae said:
"Ignorance" in the best sense: "Hadn't heard there was a solution"
In this case MegaTraveller's Fleet Jump coordination rule, which allows a communicating fleet to sync their jumps and cluster their arrival times much more closely than the usual duration variability. I'll have to dig for the actual location, as I think it's in a Traveller's Digest.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
Looked in Traveller Digest, Far Traveller and High Passage (oh the memories!) and was about to try Challenge then a thought said try Sector Fleet. Sure enough pages 77-79 describe jump procedures and one passage under Squadron or Fleet Jump mentions military vessels either jump to a place considered safe until everyone shows up and/or have Squadron Jump Systems that slave all networked ships to usually a flagship with the expensive central unit. They also include convoys and escorts. Hey what do megacorps and governments have in common? Money. Small groups emerge together while there can be a variance of 2 hours for larger groups.
I notice the section speaks often about a jump grid rather than a jump bubble.
The next section talks about Pursuit Jumps in which a ship tries to analyze a target's Jump Vector and attempt to match it. Yeah, pirates could be that desperate.
I notice the section speaks often about a jump grid rather than a jump bubble.
The next section talks about Pursuit Jumps in which a ship tries to analyze a target's Jump Vector and attempt to match it. Yeah, pirates could be that desperate.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaVIIoRKBlk
sideranautae
Mongoose
GypsyComet said:
1: I do remember something about that. BUT, it doesn't allow for simultaneous reentry (there are inaccuracies).
2: I was sticking to the rules version we are discussing (MGT) unless explicitly stated otherwise. Otherwise it gets confusing fast.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
sideranautae said:
1. Unless you emerge right on top of a pirate (or defending fleet) a few hours of scatter will be close enough to keep everyone together. The first ship to emerge might be alone for an hour or two, but selecting emergence to minimize quick interception possibilities will go a long way to making that hour useful, drawing out ambushers thinking they have a single lost ship to grab.
2. What gets more confusing is someone who won't state that they want a one edition solution. Mongoose has a lot of brand new players but also has a lot of old multi-edition veterans. If you ask a question that was answered in another edition without specifying Mongoose only, expect a multi-edition answer, especially since it is almost all still available commercially.
sideranautae
Mongoose
GypsyComet said:
I don't have the article you refer to at hand so I have no idea as to the level of inaccuracy. If you have the reference... But yes, if a few hours, no big deal as you point out.
The Sector Fleet re-published for MGT has a section in there on how squadrons/fleets jump together. This is what it states:
Squadron or Fleet Jump
Jump mechanics are not properly understood. Two similar vessels can enter Jump at the same time and place, with the same destination, and come out 2 days apart. This is not acceptable for fleet operations. The Imperial Navy gets around this in two ways. Jumps are made, where possible, into points distant from the projected location of enemy forces. This gives time for the fleet or squadron to reorganize itself upon arrival. However, it is not always practicable.
For this reason, all Navy vessels are fitted with Squadron Jump systems. These generate Jump parameters for a group of ships rather than a single vessel, and slave the systems of all ships to a central initiation circuit. The standard unit (which is very expensive) can cover a squadron of ships (or a convoy and its escorts). Fleet flagships are fitted with an even more complex system which can coordinate the Jump of a number of squadrons.
There is still variation in emergence, however. Using a linked Jump reduces variation in time to about an hour either way in most cases. Position variance is minimal. This means that fleets can Jump en masse and be ready for combat at the far end, but a fleet emergence is still an exciting time for all concerned, as vessels emerge in the wrong order, on slightly different vectors, and dispersed in time by up to 2 hours. The variance is greater for large fleets. A single vessel and her escorts are likely to emerge all together. Larger forces are not.
The problem here is that civilian ships have no method (at least in the published rules) on how they can jump and emerge relatively at the same time. Without that possibility it makes it nigh impossible for a civilian ship to ever be escorted or travel in pairs/groups. It's a fundamental flaw of the rules that is addressed well.
Sector Fleet missed a lot of editing too, as a number of sections are lifted completely from the previous version. Which isn't a big deal... normally. But when MGT changes how jump drives work and then new material is republished that refers to older MT explanation... well, you can see how players might get frustrated with the split message.
Squadron or Fleet Jump
Jump mechanics are not properly understood. Two similar vessels can enter Jump at the same time and place, with the same destination, and come out 2 days apart. This is not acceptable for fleet operations. The Imperial Navy gets around this in two ways. Jumps are made, where possible, into points distant from the projected location of enemy forces. This gives time for the fleet or squadron to reorganize itself upon arrival. However, it is not always practicable.
For this reason, all Navy vessels are fitted with Squadron Jump systems. These generate Jump parameters for a group of ships rather than a single vessel, and slave the systems of all ships to a central initiation circuit. The standard unit (which is very expensive) can cover a squadron of ships (or a convoy and its escorts). Fleet flagships are fitted with an even more complex system which can coordinate the Jump of a number of squadrons.
There is still variation in emergence, however. Using a linked Jump reduces variation in time to about an hour either way in most cases. Position variance is minimal. This means that fleets can Jump en masse and be ready for combat at the far end, but a fleet emergence is still an exciting time for all concerned, as vessels emerge in the wrong order, on slightly different vectors, and dispersed in time by up to 2 hours. The variance is greater for large fleets. A single vessel and her escorts are likely to emerge all together. Larger forces are not.
The problem here is that civilian ships have no method (at least in the published rules) on how they can jump and emerge relatively at the same time. Without that possibility it makes it nigh impossible for a civilian ship to ever be escorted or travel in pairs/groups. It's a fundamental flaw of the rules that is addressed well.
Sector Fleet missed a lot of editing too, as a number of sections are lifted completely from the previous version. Which isn't a big deal... normally. But when MGT changes how jump drives work and then new material is republished that refers to older MT explanation... well, you can see how players might get frustrated with the split message.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You can attempt a simultaneous jump with the convoy. you could even slave their astrogation systems to the commodore's master control (though I suspect that the hardware costs is something the merchants would want to forego), but as the clip from Star Trek should show, you might leave yourself open to hack attacks.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
I don't consider the game mechanics flawed at all. Even in the real world, some things aren't always favorable to the little guy. This is the nature of the Traveller universe and its physics.
Military vessels and megacorporations can address the problem with money and resources allowing to build large vessels to convey great amounts of goods and people in relative safety while, if need be, including the system to allow escorts. The rest of us either must rely on the security of systems or must save our credits and buy guns. Even the Imperium agrees with this and allows ships the Right to Bear Arms on those mandatory emplaced hardpoints. You behave yourself, be courteous and obey the rules of arms and you get to enter and interact at most ports of call.
The ONLY people in Traveller who really need weapons are adventurers because they statistically go looking for trouble.
Military vessels and megacorporations can address the problem with money and resources allowing to build large vessels to convey great amounts of goods and people in relative safety while, if need be, including the system to allow escorts. The rest of us either must rely on the security of systems or must save our credits and buy guns. Even the Imperium agrees with this and allows ships the Right to Bear Arms on those mandatory emplaced hardpoints. You behave yourself, be courteous and obey the rules of arms and you get to enter and interact at most ports of call.
The ONLY people in Traveller who really need weapons are adventurers because they statistically go looking for trouble.
