Ships Boats in general (and on the Drinax Harrier in particular)

Icehawk

Mongoose
I'm got Mongoose 2e after not playing Traveller since the 1980s, and the Drinax campaign. Just starting.

A character with a naval background got a ship's boat in character generation. As a player, he wants his boat. As a GM, I see lot of advantages to me of them having a ships boat, especially if they're pirates flying a very distinctive ship. I think of Firefly and Serenity's little shuttles, they enabled a lot of useful plot devices.

So I'm trying to understand the rule mechanics around ships boats. I could allow a docking clamp to be added to the Harrier, it's the tonnage of the boat that's a problem, and restricting the Harrier to jump-1 because of additional tonnage impact on the jump-drive seems unworkable.

But then what about the tonnage if the holds are empty? Does cargo tonnage only count if the ship's full of cargo - can you simply run with holds empty to get enough spare tonnage to carry a ships boat and still jump-2?

Or (alternately) can you really fit a boat into the Harrier's cargo bay?

And in general, how does this benefit normally pan out for people? Given that most travellers start with quite small ships, WTF do you normally do when a character starts with a ships boat?
 

Condottiere

Emperor Mongoose
Volume is the operating mechanic.

In theory, you can place a spacecraft in the hold, if you can get it in; if only in pieces.

Let's say the cargo hatch directly connected to that hold is large enough to allow the spacecraft to transported through (in one piece), and you might want to tie down the spacecraft.

Another issue is launch and recovery, since the cargo hold is not specialized in these operations, compared to a hangar.

Matryoshkawise, if the ship's boat interior has space, you can pack cargo into that, while it's arrested in the cargo hold.

Financially, it's actually better to own a ship's boat free and clear, than have a mortgaged starship.

If you're planning on an interstellar trip, you could try to ship the ship's boat as cargo on someone else's freighter.
 

Gavain

Mongoose
My crew took the Harrier and created a cargobay door at the stern. This allowed them to use the grav vehicle they bought. Technically that could be used as a shuttle as it is vacuum sealed.
 

Garran

Banded Mongoose
The other thing to consider is that the Harrier is their starting ship, and while they're expected to keep it throughout the campaign as a symbolic vessel, there's no reason that they couldn't use the boat with another ship later. (Depending on how the first adventure goes they may have two more ships for their fleet by the time it's done, and that's not counting any creative acquisitions along the way.)
 

ottarrus

Cosmic Mongoose
How big is the cargo hold of the HG2e designed Harrier?
I haven't seen the HG2 design for it, but the original 'tender' for the ship was to be long on firepower and performance, and short on everything else.
What's more, even if there is 33 dtons aboard the Harrier, there are excellent odd that they're not configured to accept a Ship's Boat. In order to do that, that tonnage would all have to be in one place, with a direct hatch to space AND the hatch would have to be large enough to take the diameter of the Boat.
 

ottarrus

Cosmic Mongoose
To the OP, IIRC the Drinax Campaign had an extensive modification and upgrade mechanic to it. You could possibly use that to have the Harrier modified to carry the Boat.
 

Vormaerin

Mongoose
The Ship's Boat benefit does take some finagling to work into the campaign. Either the character is going to have to spend a lot of money transporting it along with them on jumps (if they don't have a ship) or they are going to need to customize any ship the team has to use that ship's boat instead of whatever it was designed for.

Its definitely a fun benefit to have with a lot of use. But you will have to work with your players to deal with the transport issues if you aren't running one of those rare single system campaigns.
 

Condottiere

Emperor Mongoose
(Very) tight fit.

Even docking space requires ten percent leeway, and I usually think needs a specific hull (pre)configuration.
 

nats

Banded Mongoose
Sell it and buy something smaller like a 20 ton Launch and then redesign it to add a weapon and modify the ship to add a launch bay with the extra cash assuming you can get MCr6 or more for it selling it as new ... the way I see it the 30tons of cargo space is just 30 tons of volume not weight so it wont alter the jump distance putting a Launch into the cargo hold and reducing the cargo hold to 7 tons or whatever. Only expanding the volume of the ship would do that - by fixing it to the outside etc.
 

AnotherDilbert

Cosmic Mongoose
Or (alternately) can you really fit a boat into the Harrier's cargo bay?
No, i shouldn't work, but:

Rule 0: If the Referee wants it to work, it works.


Alternatively, does it have to be a Ship's Boat? Give him something smaller, say a Gig, and spruce it up a bit? That would ameliorate the problem.


If he just wants a small shuttle, this might do?

Overdesigned Runabout:
10 Dt, streamlined, scoops, nippy 6 G, MCr 10.
Basic bridge (seats 2) + 2.5 Dt [35 m³] cargo with foldable seats for 10 and a collapsible tank for fuel, or any combination thereof.
Radiation Shielding, Heat Shielding, Psi Shielding
Hostile Env Capable and Underwater Capable (150 m)
Foldable aerofins for manoeuvrability in atmosphere
Stealth and Emissions Absorption Grid for increased stealth (total sensor DM -6)
Armour 3 + Armoured bulkheads around the drives and fuel to prevent critical hits
6 G M-drive
12 Power [2 Power (basic) + 6 Power (drive) leaves 4 Power in reserve, perhaps for a Laser?]
Basic bridge w. Holographic Controls
Computer m/10 with a m/5 backup.
Virtual Crew/0 software so it can drive itself, if not very well.
No airlock, the entire cargo compartment can work as an airlock, so vacc suits recommended.

Skärmavbild 2023-01-29 kl. 14.28.png

10 Passengers or 35 m³ cargo is quite a lot. It's almost a full cargo container.

I threw the kitchen sink (with a marble counter-top) at it, just remove the stuff you don't like.

The armour might come in handy if hostiles are shooting at you with small arms, just a point or two makes a world of difference.



A very basic pedestrian version might look like this:

Basic Runabout:
10 Dt, streamlined, nippy 4 G, MCr 4.
Basic bridge (seats 2) + 5 Dt [70 m³] cargo with foldable seats for 20 and a collapsible tank for fuel, or any combination thereof.
Skärmavbild 2023-01-29 kl. 14.41.png
 
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Vormaerin

Mongoose
It does not have to be the specific small craft "Ship's Boat" if it is the standard Chargen benefit. Just a small craft of Tech 12 and no more than MCr10 in cost.
 

nats

Banded Mongoose
Well looking at the cost of an internal loading bay for a Gig or Ships Boat 20tons vessel you are talking MCr 5.75 for a launch bay of sufficient size so that might put the dampners on it a bit. Although it seems a stupid rule as it makes the provision of an internal launch bay cost more than the small ship itself - completely unrealistic. I would just say you can allow for launch bays for no extra cost myself just like Cepheus treats them. Yet another daft Mongoose rule :mad:

Although converting an existing ship to allow for an internal launch bay would be more expensive as that would require bay doors being installed possibly moving around some rooms etc.

Firefly makes use of Air/Rafts so maybe you could use one of those instead.
 
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paltrysum

Emperor Mongoose
A character with a naval background got a ship's boat in character generation. As a player, he wants his boat. As a GM, I see lot of advantages to me of them having a ships boat, especially if they're pirates flying a very distinctive ship. I think of Firefly and Serenity's little shuttles, they enabled a lot of useful plot devices.
I sympathize with your ship's boat-owning player, but sacrificing a single ton of the Harrier, which only has about 30 tons of cargo space, really handicaps it for piracy. Perhaps the ship's boat could be worked into the plot later, after the Travellers have taken other ships, within which it could be docked.
 

Garran

Banded Mongoose
It isn't unreasonable for the cost of putting a launch bay in there to be exorbitant: a 200-ton ship really isn't suited to acting as a carrier to begin with, and as a streamlined vessel there's really no reason for it to need to.

Did anyone else get ship shares, partial ship ownership, etc, or the boat the only thing?
 

agentwigggles

Banded Mongoose
I'm got Mongoose 2e after not playing Traveller since the 1980s, and the Drinax campaign. Just starting.

A character with a naval background got a ship's boat in character generation. As a player, he wants his boat. As a GM, I see lot of advantages to me of them having a ships boat, especially if they're pirates flying a very distinctive ship. I think of Firefly and Serenity's little shuttles, they enabled a lot of useful plot devices.

So I'm trying to understand the rule mechanics around ships boats. I could allow a docking clamp to be added to the Harrier, it's the tonnage of the boat that's a problem, and restricting the Harrier to jump-1 because of additional tonnage impact on the jump-drive seems unworkable.

But then what about the tonnage if the holds are empty? Does cargo tonnage only count if the ship's full of cargo - can you simply run with holds empty to get enough spare tonnage to carry a ships boat and still jump-2?

Or (alternately) can you really fit a boat into the Harrier's cargo bay?

And in general, how does this benefit normally pan out for people? Given that most travellers start with quite small ships, WTF do you normally do when a character starts with a ships boat?
What if...
What if they just got a free Vehicle to wherever they were going. Like a TAS benfiet but like at a Enterprise Rent a car
In some circumstances this is a stronger benny then a ship boat, but it would need to be respective of place you're at. So the free vehicle may be horses or sometime a ship boat.
 

RogerMc

Banded Mongoose
Add a 200 ton capacity jump net - it will reduce the Harrier's jump from 2 to 1 but you could use it to carry around a whole squadron of small craft to swarm the enemy - and when you do need the jump-2 range store the jump net and leave them in orbit somewhere until you can pick them up again.
 
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