Torpedo Boats in Traveller

[AnotherDilbert]

As I recall meson gun spinal mounts, jay is a kilotonne, enn is two kilotonnes, and there's no minimum hull size.

The difference is much smaller than it appears; add the needed power plant and fuel for the real cost of the weapon system.

Meson J: 1000 Dt + 800 Dt + 800 Dt = 2600 Dt.
Meson N: 2000 Dt + 1000 Dt + 1000 Dt = 4000 Dt.
PartAcc T: 3000 Dt + 1000 Dt + 1000 Dt = 5000 Dt.

So, a Meson N installation is 4000/2600 ≈ 1.5 times as large as a Meson J, hence a ship carrying it is 1.5 times as large and expensive.

 

[Condottiere]

I'm probably mixing editions, but double shot with batteries, and then run for one round while replenishing the batteries and cycling the mount.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I'm probably mixing editions, but double shot with batteries, and then run for one round while replenishing the batteries and cycling the mount.

Rapid Fire was an option in MgT1, and has nothing to with either LBB5 or MgT2.

 

[J. L. Brown]

Is there any place which makes clear whether or not a single torpedo may be attached to (and fired from) an single fixed-mount firmpoint? If so, then it may be possible to build a sub-35 dTon (down to just 10 dTon) torpedo boat. Also -- is there any point in armoring a torpedo boat? At the level of the individual craft, it does not seem worth it; but fleet-scale rules (not all of which I have seen) might change that.

 

[Alqualonde]

There is no turret based torpedo launcher in High Guard rev2022. So the only way is to use a torpedo barbette at the cost of 3 firmpoints.

There is a short booklet called Fighters Vol I, released under TAS by Northern Edge that offer an interesting option : External Ordinance Points (like on eal life fighters). A fighter can thus carry torpedoes, but it will cost thrust points. I can just add that such ordinance is not protected in the fighter's hull, it should be a bit more vulnerable to damage.

As for armoring, the revised HG makes it very space consuming, thus a pulse laser will still be a threat for a 10dT fighter (15AP of bonded superdense plating will eat 48% of a 10dT craft, 65% for 13AP of Crystaliron).

 

[Regnarts]

There is no turret based torpedo launcher in High Guard rev2022. So the only way is to use a torpedo barbette at the cost of 3 firmpoints.

There is a short booklet called Fighters Vol I, released under TAS by Northern Edge that offer an interesting option : External Ordinance Points (like on eal life fighters). A fighter can thus carry torpedoes, but it will cost thrust points. I can just add that such ordinance is not protected in the fighter's hull, it should be a bit more vulnerable to damage.

As for armoring, the revised HG makes it very space consuming, thus a pulse laser will still be a threat for a 10dT fighter (15AP of bonded superdense plating will eat 48% of a 10dT craft, 65% for 13AP of Crystaliron).

There is the Solomani torpedo grapple from AotCS vol 2:
Torpedo Grapple, Firmpoint: This device takes up a single firmpoint and carries two torpedoes on a nonreloadable mount. Both can be launched together or a single weapon can be delivered. The grapple itself does not affect streamlining but a ship with torpedoes in place can only be considered at best partially streamlined. Any kind of torpedo can be carried on a grapple. A firmpoint grapple costs MCr0.1 and does not need to be replaced after use but cannot be reloaded in flight. Torpedoes must be purchased at standard prices – Cr150000 per standard torpedo and more for specialist types.
Torpedo Grapple, Hardpoint: A larger torpedo grapple can be mounted on a single hardpoint, carrying four torpedoes on a non-reloadable mount. A grapple with torpedoes aboard reduces streamlined ships to a partially streamlined state. Torpedoes can be launched singly or in pairs. The mount costs MCr0.25 and, like the firmpoint grapple, consumes negligible space inside the ship.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

There is the Solomani torpedo grapple from AotCS vol 2:

Those are written for HG'17, not HG'22. Fighters were nerfed in HG'22, so it is questionable how that should be translated...

The anti-torpedo missile (HG'22, p36) renders torpedoes basically obsolete.


A 100 Dt "super-fighter" with a bay may be what you are looking for? With Size Reduction (HG'22, p72) a bay can be as small as 35 Dt.

Also -- is there any point in armoring a torpedo boat? At the level of the individual craft, it does not seem worth it; but fleet-scale rules (not all of which I have seen) might change that.

A Long Range Pulse Laser will reach Very Long range. A few of those will pick apart an unarmoured fighter squadron with ease.

If you use Fighter Squadron rules, a single laser or missile will kill multiple unarmoured fighters for each hit.

Yes, you need armour (and Reflec)...

 

[tytalan]

Honest truth on the small scale like your proposing Torpedoes don’t really make much sense. They are slower than missiles generally, only do slightly more damage, with the barbette example a Torpedo one only carries 3 while the missile carries can fire 5 and has 5 loads for 25 missiles. The only real advantage of torpedoes is they are harder to stop with point defense but that generally only matters with large ships which SDBs really are not meant to fight. Even with bays the missile bays vastly out powers torpedo bays. Small bay for example the missile bay fires 12 missiles with 12 salvos for 144 missiles while the sm Torpedo you can fire 3 torpedoes in each of 12 salvos for 36 torpedoes.

 

[Regnarts]

Those are written for HG'17, not HG'22. Fighters were nerfed in HG'22, so it is questionable how that should be translated...

The anti-torpedo missile (HG'22, p36) renders torpedoes basically obsolete.


A 100 Dt "super-fighter" with a bay may be what you are looking for? With Size Reduction (HG'22, p72) a bay can be as small as 35 Dt.




A Long Range Pulse Laser will reach Very Long range. A few of those will pick apart an unarmoured fighter squadron with ease.

If you use Fighter Squadron rules, a single laser or missile will kill multiple unarmoured fighters for each hit.

Yes, you need armour (and Reflec)...

I think the grapples are still a thing.
In the Rim Expeditions they are shown in the high guard part (although further explained that they may be used for probes) and we have one mounted on a 25t boat.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Honest truth on the small scale like your proposing Torpedoes don’t really make much sense.

Agreed.

The only real advantage of torpedoes is they are harder to stop with point defense but that generally only matters with large ships which SDBs really are not meant to fight.

That is balanced so roughly the same amount of PD stops a bays worth of missiles or torpedoes. Neither advantage nor disadvantage.

Even with bays the missile bays vastly out powers torpedo bays. Small bay for example the missile bay fires 12 missiles with 12 salvos for 144 missiles while the sm Torpedo you can fire 3 torpedoes in each of 12 salvos for 36 torpedoes.

The hidden advantage of torpedos are that they are slightly cheaper and better at Distant range. Choosing torpedo bays you get (slightly) cheaper ships, hence more ships, hence more Hull points for your budget.

12 Nuke missiles are kCr 450, three nuke torpedoes are kCr 225.

A Nuke missile does 1DD ≈ 35 damage, a nuke torpedo does 2DD ≈ 70 damage. After armour 30, that is 5 damage vs. 40 damage. Torpedoes have a use, until the anti-torpedo missile destroys them...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I think the grapples are still a thing.
In the Rim Expeditions they are shown in the high guard part (although further explained that they may be used for probes) and we have one mounted on a 25t boat.

OK.

The problem with small salvoes is EW. Group your boats into squadrons to get bigger salvoes, you also are more exposed to return fire.


That said, 5 Dt drones with a couple of torpedoes might be usable? 100 Dt worth of drones can launch 40 torpedoes in a single round...

 

[Condottiere]

Mines.

Proximity would be booby traps.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

That said, 5 Dt drones with a couple of torpedoes might be usable? 100 Dt worth of drones can launch 40 torpedoes in a single round...

Something like this?

TL-15, MCr ~4, 5 Dt, 9 G, Armour 15, Hull 2, can clamp itself to a carrier hull.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Just build a drone that carries anti-torpedo missiles to meet them half way.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Just build a drone that carries anti-torpedo missiles to meet them half way.

Agreed, the same drone with a missile rack and a few ATMs would blunt that and more...

Torpedoes seems to be obsolete.

 

[Alqualonde]

Something like this?

TL-15, MCr ~4, 5 Dt, 9 G, Armour 15, Hull 2, can clamp itself to a carrier hull.
View attachment 1878

I might be wrong with my math, but shouldn't armor be 2.4dT?
0.8% x4 (for the small size) x15 (armor rating) = 48%, so 5dT x0.48 = 2.4dT.

 

[Condottiere]

It quadruples below sixteen tonnes.

The formula leans more to try and not get shot.

Or an ejection seat.

 

[AndrewW]

It quadruples below sixteen tonnes.

Though -10% for the sphere hull.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I might be wrong with my math, but shouldn't armor be 2.4dT?
0.8% x4 (for the small size) x15 (armor rating) = 48%, so 5dT x0.48 = 2.4dT.

Though -10% for the sphere hull.

Quite, so:
5 Dt × 0.8% × 15 × 4 × 90% = 2.16 Dt, displayed as 2.2 Dt.

 

[Alqualonde]

Though -10% for the sphere hull.

Thanks, I forgot about the shape bonus/malus.
I need to eat more fish, it's supposed to be good for my memory.