TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
I swear it was at least inferred in the State of Mongoose at the end of 2008 that Mongoose would probably be relaunching RuneQuest. I don't ever recall being kept in the dark about it.
how long will this version last? (runequest 2)
- Thread starter p1fx
- Start date
p1fx said:
We did
There is no practical way we tell every retailer in the world what is happening (though we did tell every one we met face to face, such as at trade shows in 2009), but we do tell every distributor. I would like to say every distributor then tells every one of their retailers, but I am afraid that information does not always filter through.
duncan_disorderly
Mongoose
PrinceYyrkoon said:
Both Empires and GFC looked like they were unfinished first drafts, or had been butchered by Editors with no consideration as to how the game worked. Unfortunately, with Mongooses previous record, either situation was not unbelievable.
To my mind the real problem is that the original rules were rushed out in an incomplete and untested manner, making a second edition with major revisions inevitable. The format of the original release (multiple thin hardback books) made the game expensive to buy in (apart, of course from those who gave up in disgust after the first book...), and we were then expected to pay all over again for RQ Deluxe, and now a third time for MRQ2. I would much rather have waited a further 6 months and had MRQ2 to start with, with the sollow up books matching its standard (in terms of writing, editing and layout).
The changes to the rules means that new versions of many of the previous sourcebooks are now required to ensure they fit in with the new way of doing things - and again, in some cases (Cults of Glorantha) these are books that really should have been done properly the first time. We are being asked to pay again because Mongoose failed to ensure the quality of the first edition, prefering to publish sub-standard material on time than getting it right.
(That's why the best piece of news ever from Mongoose was that the Pavis book would be released later than originally planned because it required more work...)
These sourcebook revisons will also prove tricky. If the books contain no new information, just updates to mechanics then those of us with copies of the originals will feel ripped off (again) at paying twice for the same material. If it contains some new material, we will feel ripped off (again) because we are forced to re-purchase books to get new information. And if it omits material, then people who are coming to MRQ fresh with the second edition will feel ripped off that they have to hunt for OOP books to get hold of information....
SetentaeBolg
Mongoose
I'm in Scotland too, and it's hardly Outer Mongolia; we have electricity and everything!
To me, MRQII is such a big improvement it's much better to have it than not. I'd be surprised if the game didn't see much wider usage thanks to the new edition, and hence more popularity and more books produced. This is all good news for the gamer. I'd suggest to the OP that he buys the new edition and I believe he'll be more than satisfied once he reads and plays the new game. We're talking around £20, after all; it's not going to break the bank.
And this fixation with Mongoose's profit motive! If Mr and Mrs Mongoose were really wanting to make money, they wouldn't be publishing games! They'd be IT consultants or hedge fund managers.
To a greater or lesser extent, everyone involved in making games has to be in it for the love of the game. To suggest otherwise is, I'm guessing, a little hurtful, and certainly unfair.
To me, MRQII is such a big improvement it's much better to have it than not. I'd be surprised if the game didn't see much wider usage thanks to the new edition, and hence more popularity and more books produced. This is all good news for the gamer. I'd suggest to the OP that he buys the new edition and I believe he'll be more than satisfied once he reads and plays the new game. We're talking around £20, after all; it's not going to break the bank.
And this fixation with Mongoose's profit motive! If Mr and Mrs Mongoose were really wanting to make money, they wouldn't be publishing games! They'd be IT consultants or hedge fund managers.
To a greater or lesser extent, everyone involved in making games has to be in it for the love of the game. To suggest otherwise is, I'm guessing, a little hurtful, and certainly unfair.
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
I dont want to be tarred with a 'I hate Mongoose' brush, because I dont, far from it.
I accept these things happen, I would just prefer that, from now on, situations like this are minimized. Im talking specifically of releasing a quick-fix like G,F&C, when MRQII was already being worked on. I dont think thats an ideal way to plan a release schedule. Im sure you agree with this too, Matt. And, actually, there was not only a MRQ I.I, there was a MRQ I.2 before this current edition. I feel like, maybe unjustly, I have a Beta version of MRQ.
But, whatever, its all in the past, I just look forward to MRQII sticking around, until I have enough extra cash to buy it! Knowing my luck, it will be just before a revised, gold-leaf text collectors edition. Just looking at all the new guys on the boards, tells me that MRQII is a success, and Im happy for Mongoose.
Just lets cut out the errors and obsolete books as much as possible, ok?
I accept these things happen, I would just prefer that, from now on, situations like this are minimized. Im talking specifically of releasing a quick-fix like G,F&C, when MRQII was already being worked on. I dont think thats an ideal way to plan a release schedule. Im sure you agree with this too, Matt. And, actually, there was not only a MRQ I.I, there was a MRQ I.2 before this current edition. I feel like, maybe unjustly, I have a Beta version of MRQ.
But, whatever, its all in the past, I just look forward to MRQII sticking around, until I have enough extra cash to buy it! Knowing my luck, it will be just before a revised, gold-leaf text collectors edition. Just looking at all the new guys on the boards, tells me that MRQII is a success, and Im happy for Mongoose.
Just lets cut out the errors and obsolete books as much as possible, ok?
PrinceYyrkoon said:
Well, it depends on your point of view, for this particular example.
Yes, Guilds was a forerunner of what was being planned in RQII - but we also used it to gauge reaction to those rules. If there had been a complete revolt against the direction they took, we would have revised our plans accordingly, and RQII would have been different to how it appears now.
That did not happen, and so we could take it that what we were planning for RQII was the right idea.
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
Thats fine, I guess. If its a case of some books being necessary for Mongoose survival, or no books at all, Ill take the former.
duncan_disorderly
Mongoose
msprange said:
Isn't that what S&P is for? :?
It's paying to be your Beta Testers that is what is upsetting us.
Guilds was a test case for MRQ2 - but the publication of MRQ2 means we need new versions of "Empires" & "Guilds", so having bought and approved the original idea, we still need to pay again for the full implementation.
I suppose it could have been worse. If you'd decided to change direction, those of us who liked the GUilds approach would have a new, incompatible system to go with the rules introduced therein...
duncan_disorderly said:
Whichever way you look at it, Guilds was hardly a beta test - it was a very well polished product.
msprange said:
Is it still compatible with MRQ2 version? I am tempted to buy it, but as I recently purchased new MRQ2, I want make sure it is compatible. Orshould I wait for new release?
And more generally, is there any list of what MRQ1 books are compatible with MRQ2 version?
And BTW, new version is awesome, I liked MRQ1 quite a lot but it has few small problems. With version 2, all my problems seem to be gone. Good work!
duncan_disorderly
Mongoose
msprange said:
Your definiton of a "well polished product" is obviously different from mine! I refer you to this thread where I discussed some of my problems with it....
GoingDown said:
Well, I would have to say wait for the new release
However, more seriously, the new release has something like 30% all new material included - you'll get more for your money.p1fx said:
I can't help feeling that Mongoose have in fact done just that. I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth but speaking from my point of view and judging by the comments on this forum the customers were not 100% happy with the system as published. Mongoose responded by taking the comments on board and delivering a much better system.
Frankly I would much rather that happens quickly and not over 10 years!
Each to his own.
Lord Kruge
Mongoose
Maybe at some point there might end up being a MRQ3 but I don't see any major problems with MRQ2 like I did after I picked up MRQ1. It's a rock-solid system with lots of room to expand and customize.
I'm looking forward to the Eternal Champion stuff, Deus Vult, MRQ2 Slaine, MRQ2 Conan, and MRQ2 Wraith Recon.
I'm looking forward to the Eternal Champion stuff, Deus Vult, MRQ2 Slaine, MRQ2 Conan, and MRQ2 Wraith Recon.
master of reality
Mongoose
The big question running throughout this thread is, why didn't Mongoose publish the new version of RuneQuest in the first place?
As I read my copy of the MRQ2 core book I am struck by two observations.
1) The MRQ2 core book is written as if the authors had spent many hours playing MRQ1 and discovered holes and flaws in the system.
2) The MRQ2 core book appears to address pretty much all the issues about MRQ1 discussed at great length on this forum and, at least IMO, satisfactorily resolves them.
These observations, particularly the second one, lead me to conclude that writing the MRQ2 core book when Mongoose first started publishing RuneQuest was impossible. Writing MRQ2 required years of reading customer critiques from this forum and play testing possible fixes as part of a full time job.
As annoying as it is to spend hundreds of dollars on a product, only to see it abandoned and replaced, Mongoose is simply trying to respond to critiques to the original product in the most logical way possible. Rather than continue to publish band-aid fixes, such as the GM Guide, Mongoose decided to start almost from scratch and do it right. IMO Mongoose finally got it right. The MRQ2 system is vastly superior to the MRQ1 system.
Of course, there's nothing stopping anyone from continuing to use MRQ1. New MRQ2 scenarios and source books can be converted to the MRQ1 system using the conversion pdf. Using the new system, however, will require the MRQ2 core book, and this new core book does make many of the MRQ1 books obsolete. With some stat conversions the MRQ1 scenario books and source books are still useful, but the MRQ2 Core book renders MRQ1 Core Book, Companion, Arms & Equipment, and GM's Guide obsolete.
As I read my copy of the MRQ2 core book I am struck by two observations.
1) The MRQ2 core book is written as if the authors had spent many hours playing MRQ1 and discovered holes and flaws in the system.
2) The MRQ2 core book appears to address pretty much all the issues about MRQ1 discussed at great length on this forum and, at least IMO, satisfactorily resolves them.
These observations, particularly the second one, lead me to conclude that writing the MRQ2 core book when Mongoose first started publishing RuneQuest was impossible. Writing MRQ2 required years of reading customer critiques from this forum and play testing possible fixes as part of a full time job.
As annoying as it is to spend hundreds of dollars on a product, only to see it abandoned and replaced, Mongoose is simply trying to respond to critiques to the original product in the most logical way possible. Rather than continue to publish band-aid fixes, such as the GM Guide, Mongoose decided to start almost from scratch and do it right. IMO Mongoose finally got it right. The MRQ2 system is vastly superior to the MRQ1 system.
Of course, there's nothing stopping anyone from continuing to use MRQ1. New MRQ2 scenarios and source books can be converted to the MRQ1 system using the conversion pdf. Using the new system, however, will require the MRQ2 core book, and this new core book does make many of the MRQ1 books obsolete. With some stat conversions the MRQ1 scenario books and source books are still useful, but the MRQ2 Core book renders MRQ1 Core Book, Companion, Arms & Equipment, and GM's Guide obsolete.
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
Lord Kruge said:
I think MRQ2 Conan and MRQ2 Slaine are distinctly unlikely.
so what rq1 books are actually still compatable with rq2? how is arms n equipment incompatable? what about monsters 1 and 2. i can understand the main book and speel book are obviously now duff.
just incase i bite my tongue and buy the bloody new edtion anyway, if just to see the difference.
just incase i bite my tongue and buy the bloody new edtion anyway, if just to see the difference.
Weapons have changed a lot since RQI, just look at the different ranges of missile weapons. So I suppose, you can really throw the old version away.
I personally am not too interested in loads of equipment lists, but what I'm really itching for are those rules for greater weapons (those crafted by master smiths) and enchantments... something I believe to be just too important for a magic-rich world to be discarded.
So, most likely I'm going to spend "a lot of money" (let's be honest: it's not like back in the old times where you couldn't actually afford a book, because the money you got from your parents/small job was just not enough to buy this or that book... and I get the impression that almost everyone on this forum doesn't really have an issue with costs, since the clientele appears to be older than at other forums... no offence intended, of course !) just for perhaps 10 of 128 pages :?
