how long will this version last? (runequest 2)

[NulSyn]

lets not forget what happened to tsr when they began to focus more on their profit margins than the games, they also had a thing against 3rd party publications which mirrors mongooses stance on this for rq2, no more sepulchure games stuff etc

Sorry man, I just have seen too many things that makes me think opposite of this.

First Loz seems to be very passionate about RQII and the MoorCock RPG books he is working on, he seems to really have drive to see a great game put out for people to play.

Second Matt has flat out said that other companies can put out stuff for RQII, its just that its not set up through the OGL or using an SRD, it uses licenses. Clockwork and Chilvary is a 3rd party publication coming out for RQII.

I just don't see the spite you do.

 

[p1fx]

the way in which skills are increased was not a main change and sanity HAS actually stayed relativly the same with MINOR changes, but as you yourself point out these wernt changes to the game system which required the release of new soucre material as the rq2 changes have, or are mongoose going to come out and say that these new versions are driven by cash not because of the changes made to the core book?

 

[Darran]

still waiting to hear why chaosium and palladium are bad in your eyes, is it because they produce games because they love and belive in them and take the profit made as a secondary interest, perhaps leaving them not as competitive as other companies but more rpg focused.

Do you know how to make a small fortune in the RPG industry?

Start with a large fortune!

 

[NulSyn]

the way in which skills are increased was not a main change and sanity HAS actually stayed relativly the same with MINOR changes, but as you yourself point out these wernt changes to the game system which required the release of new soucre material as the rq2 changes have, or are mongoose going to come out and say that these new versions are driven by cash not because of the changes made to the core book?

Again no where has anyone said money is not a factor, they are a publishing company...companies need money to run.

But you seem to think its the only factor, which is where the disagreement is coming from. I believe they wanted more money yes, but I think that they felt the way to get that money was to make the game system better and re-release everything to follow suit in nicer layout, nicer rules tweaks, nicer materials used for books, and an author who very much cares for his work to be the best it can be.

Where's the problem in that? That is exactly what people want from a game company they buy from. Sure maybe there are a lot of people out there who think CoC is great and needs no improvement at all, but based on feedback there were a lot of people saying they would have played MRQ except blank, or blank didn't work right, or they didn't like blank's rule etc....

Why is not smart to listen to feedback and create a better version of a game, re-invigorate the market and make your company more stable because of it? Sounds smart to me.

 

[p1fx]

my point about the changes is mainly the timescale, cthulhu may have seen changes but these have been over 20 years not 4! these changes could have easily been done either before or in the future not just after a few years, the fact that hawkmoon etc were running out of publishable material seems to me to be the main reason behind a new edition. lets face it mongoose hasnt supported some of its games to the level they deserved in favor of other systems or new systems, ogl horror slain or jerimaha etc, they want to concentrate on what they have rather than what they can get. everytime a new system is acquired there seems to be a inevitable rush to reprint other licences in that format, traveller for example, even conan was penciled in for a change to d6 which is one reason the licenceors wont take up the extension mongoose wanted and instead are putting it out for tender, that and the new movies which inevitably spells the end of a licence, for example see merps and iron crown.

perhaps if mongoose produced their own system and game they would be more supportive of it and we would see a truely great game capable of taking on the money grabbing minature pushing ******* who now own d+d, remember pathfinder was born only out of dissatifaction with 4th edition.

i was actually tempted to get rq2 but i just cant bring myself to buy another mongoose game that i dont know how long it will last for, esp with a pile of conan, judge dredd, ogl, slain etc books
pod is great, but not so when you live in scotland

 

[p1fx]

good example of change in a ok way is castles and crusades, which after 6 years has reprinted withchanges to their game, however these are not major changes and they have made the material changed available for free for those with earlier editions so they dont need to buy a new book. thats looking after the customers you already have aswell as aiming for new ones

 

[TrippyHippy]

you obviously dont know the cthulhu system do you? it has constantly had new editions yet purposefully have kept changes minimal as to allow every version to be compatible. i have versions from 2 edtion through to the new edition and these are all useable including all the sourcebooks so you may want to do some research before saying that! im currently writting a sourcebook for cthulhu and a setting for brp. perhaps you should look at chaosiums site and learn a bit about the game and system.

Yes, I actually own several editions of Call of Cthulhu myself, and have been playing the game with reasonable intensity for about 15 years. And actually, the rules have changed somewhat - albeit in sometimes subtle ways - through the various editions. I have a copy of the 2nd edition, and it's quite a bit different to 6th edition.

Not quite sure that you are arguing from a rational base here. I fail to see why it's more morally reprehensible to make a new edition with changes in it, than simply releasing an edition with minimal changes. They are both being released to...guess what...make money! :wink:

It's also why they've licensed their brand to so many other systems recently too.

In the case of Mongoose's RuneQuest, however, the real aspect is that they needed to revise the game significantly because of mistakes made in the previous attempt. And, hey, they've been pretty up front and honest about that too. Flatly, your attacks are unfair.

 

[master of reality]

When MRQ2 first came out, I cynically said to myself, "gee, I wonder when MRQ3 will come out?" Now that I have MRQ2, that question has become irrelevant. I finally purchased MRQ2 because I wasn't entirely happy with MRQ1 and everyone on this forum said that MRQ2 was so great. Now that I have the MRQ2 core book, I don't see any need for a MRQ3. Even if a MRQ3 is finally published, I'll stick with MRQ2 because as far as I'm concerned, all the issues I had with MRQ1 have been resolved. Had I been happy with MRQ1, I would have stuck with it, and saved myself the money, but I found myself house ruling it and complaining about it. I am very happy with MRQ2 and see no reason to switch to a newer version. Oh sure, we can always tweak the system further, but MRQ2 lays down a solid foundation.

 

[MongooseMatt]

even conan was penciled in for a change to d6

No it wasn't.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Oh, and guys - we don't talk about other companies and why they might be bad in any way. That will be a good way for the thread to get deleted.

 

[Mikko Leho]

i was actually tempted to get rq2 but i just cant bring myself to buy another mongoose game that i dont know how long it will last for, esp with a pile of conan, judge dredd, ogl, slain etc books

Be careful with that pile, it is bound to catch fire soon because they are no longer supported. After all D&D 3.5 books were the biggest cause of household fires last year.

 

[NulSyn]

Oh, and guys - we don't talk about other companies and why they might be bad in any way. That will be a good way for the thread to get deleted.

Oopsie, my bad. I will edit it out of my content. Sorry.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Whilst I dont completely agree with the OP, I can sympathise.

I havent picked up MRQII just yet, though I probably will. It still smarts, however, that books for MRQI were sold as seen for a system soon to be deleted (a fact unknown to me when I bought them), and, actually, in some cases, these products themselves were more or less beta versions of things to come, (Im thinking of Empires and Guilds, Factions & Cults here).

This isnt confined to Runequest, either. Paranoia had similar treatment. I do consider this new version of Paranoia to be a little cynical. Im sorry, Mongoose, I know your customer service is excellent, but your way of releasing soon-to-be-obsolete material is a real issue with me.

I differ from the OP in thinking that this may be a thing of the past. Im willing to give Mongoose the benefit of the doubt in that theyve been plagued with publishing problems for a good while. So I am seriously hoping that these things will no longer happen.

I still wont buy the new edition of Paranoia though.

 

[hegan]

well, in any case it's trade, and you (we) are customers

you (we) have the choice : to buy or not to buy (hey ? that's sounds good !)

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

well, in any case it's trade

I guess the question is whether it is fair or not. But yes, youre right, we are willing victims.

 

[MongooseMatt]

but your way of releasing soon-to-be-obsolete material is a real issue with me.
.

Well, let's be fair here. . .

We never make it a secret when a new edition is coming out. Furthermore, we space at _least_ six months between the last releases of an older edition and the first of a new one (precisely to avoid the kind of charges you level at us here).

We talk about the new editions in the forums and Planet Mongoose. However, we always seem to miss someone!

 

[p1fx]

well perhaps aswell as just mentioning them on here you could issue a statement to other gaming sites and to retailers so they could at least advise their customers that there is a new edition on the way, similar to what wizards of the cash did with 4th edition (about a years warning if not more). at least that way people would have fair warning especially those who either dont check this site regularly or those about to buy into one of your systems for the first time, or is there the worry this would cut back on sales?

again i will repeat, my problem is not so much the change it is the time scale.

 

[p1fx]

yes it maybe trade, but one of the golden rules of trade is look after your customers, take them for granted and they will go elsewhere

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

It seems fair to say that in this case, yes there were major issues with MRQ1, and yes, a new edition was the cleanest way of resolving them (the alternative was a multitude of different rules scattered all over multiple supplements, which would have made people really unhappy). MRQ2 looks to be quite a solid and stable beast, and the guys have really pulled out all the stops to resolve issues in as compatible a way as possible. Sometimes this can be easy - adjusted combat rules based on the same skills and stats won't affect supplement compatibility; sometimes it's hard - if a flaw underlies the basis of an entire magic system a fix for it will upset everything in that magic system.

 

[Banesfinger]

This is a tuff issue with any game (company):

If the time between releases is too soon, customers don't think they are getting their money's worth.

If the time between releases is too long, customers don't think the company is listening to feedback and won't improve the game.

I'm happy with the timing of MRQ2, as I (with many others) saw issues with the first version. This means Monggos is listening to us.
And the new version seems very solid, and msprange's estimate of a 10yr life-cycle seems right. Hopefully we can hold him to it.