HG: No fusion gun turrets?

[Mark A. Siefert]

I had a chance to peruse a copy of HG at the local game store. I went straight to the weapons section to see what kind of new kinds of hurt I can mount of my ships. Railguns, cool. Torpedos, neat. How about turret mounted fusion guns from the original HG...? errrr.... I couldn't find them.

Did I just miss them, or did Mongoose leave these out?

 

[Vile]

Are there any plasma guns?

Not That I'm keen on plasma guns, myself, but I just wonder whether they're in there.

 

[RandyT0001]

Probably left out due to interference with fun.
:roll:

 

[SSWarlock]

Yeah, the only fusion gun is the 50 ton bay in the Corebook and 100 ton bay in HG.

 

[Vile]

Well, plasma and fusion weapons are patently silly because any superheated plasma spewed from a gun will immediately expand in a big puff of gas. That's why I never really liked them, myself.

BUT.

Zhodani fighters without fusion guns? Grav APCs without rapid pulse Y guns? There are PGMPs and FGMPs in the TMB, ergo we must have plasma and fusion guns for ships and grav tanks. Or else. :evil:

 

[GypsyComet]

Yeah, charged particle guns in space are a bit silly, but there's enough handwaving going on already to allow them to be very VERY short ranged weapons, possibly more defensive than offensive, or possibly what makes a starship truly nasty on the ground.

Turreted Fusion Guns. Nothing kills interface fighters quite like one.

 

[collins355]

Yeah, charged particle guns in space are a bit silly, but there's enough handwaving going on already to allow them to be very VERY short ranged weapons, possibly more defensive than offensive, or possibly what makes a starship truly nasty on the ground.

Turreted Fusion Guns. Nothing kills interface fighters quite like one.

Gypsy, I think you're a bit confused. There are definitely charged particle weapons in High Guard (whether silly or not), this discussion is about the absence of turret-mounted fusion guns.

On that latter point, I note that small craft can mount FGMPs in fixed mounts. Then capital ships can mount fusion gun bays.

It is inexplicable why there are no turret-mounted fusion guns in between these two sizes.

 

[Junior]

Yeah, charged particle guns in space are a bit silly, but there's enough handwaving going on already to allow them to be very VERY short ranged weapons, possibly more defensive than offensive, or possibly what makes a starship truly nasty on the ground.

Turreted Fusion Guns. Nothing kills interface fighters quite like one.

If artificial gravity, is hand waived then why not assume there is some gravity manipulation going on with those type of guns, or better then AG, how about darkmatter, that is supposed to hold the universe together, why not a plasma/fusion bolt. Dark Matter is sufficiently unexplained it could be a good hand waive.

 

[GypsyComet]

Yeah, charged particle guns in space are a bit silly, but there's enough handwaving going on already to allow them to be very VERY short ranged weapons, possibly more defensive than offensive, or possibly what makes a starship truly nasty on the ground.

Turreted Fusion Guns. Nothing kills interface fighters quite like one.

Gypsy, I think you're a bit confused. There are definitely charged particle weapons in High Guard (whether silly or not), this discussion is about the absence of turret-mounted fusion guns.

On that latter point, I note that small craft can mount FGMPs in fixed mounts. Then capital ships can mount fusion gun bays.

It is inexplicable why there are no turret-mounted fusion guns in between these two sizes.

Not confused, just writing in "late night shorthand".

PAs can't use charged particles in space, as the "beam" would scatter as soon as it leaves the ship. HE weapons (plasma and fusion) have a similar problem, but have never been described as being long-ranged in a space combat context. Gravitic bottling (hand wave inserted here) could give them some range, but they are largely going to be a knife-fighting weapon, point-defense, and sensor smearer.

A reason that just occurred to me for the absence at the ship-turret scale is that space-combat HE is basically a small-scale HEPlaR drive, tuned (by TL) for either fire-hose (hose... of FIRE!) or fusion temperatures. As such, those weapons would need a fairly direct plasma channel connection from a fusion powerplant AND need to be large enough to have decent throw range. Both tough to do in a turret, but much easier in a bay mount.

Still doesn't explain the absence of the vehicle mounted RP-A, -B, -C, -X, -Y, and -Z weapons, though.

 

[collins355]

A reason that just occurred to me for the absence at the ship-turret scale is that space-combat HE is basically a small-scale HEPlaR drive, tuned (by TL) for either fire-hose (hose... of FIRE!) or fusion temperatures. As such, those weapons would need a fairly direct plasma channel connection from a fusion powerplant AND need to be large enough to have decent throw range. Both tough to do in a turret, but much easier in a bay mount.

Doesn't that depend on what type of Traveller energy weapon Mongoose are using? If they are using the CT/MT guns then they are directly hooked up to the powerplant, but if they're using the TNE/T4 guns then they can use power cartridges as 'ammo' and don't need the direct hookup to the powerplant.

 

[Junior]

People may have mentioned Gravitation Bottling may work, what about just shooting it out at extremely high speeds?

edit: for space plasma/fusion weaponry.

 

[GypsyComet]

A reason that just occurred to me for the absence at the ship-turret scale is that space-combat HE is basically a small-scale HEPlaR drive, tuned (by TL) for either fire-hose (hose... of FIRE!) or fusion temperatures. As such, those weapons would need a fairly direct plasma channel connection from a fusion powerplant AND need to be large enough to have decent throw range. Both tough to do in a turret, but much easier in a bay mount.

Doesn't that depend on what type of Traveller energy weapon Mongoose are using? If they are using the CT/MT guns then they are directly hooked up to the powerplant, but if they're using the TNE/T4 guns then they can use power cartridges as 'ammo' and don't need the direct hookup to the powerplant.

That's sort of my point. Powerguns (ie. the pellet guns) may not have the oomph to function at space combat ranges, so the vehicle-to-spacecraft threshold is where the technology has to shift to a HEPlaR type. The catch is that the two technologies leave a scale gap between them due to engineering concerns. This gap *should* close at higher TL, but hey, its early yet.

People may have mentioned Gravitation Bottling may work, what about just shooting it out at extremely high speeds?

edit: for space plasma/fusion weaponry.

Already assumed, actually. In order for velocity alone to be enough, it has to be a fairly high percentage of lightspeed. While traditional (CT/Striker/MT) HE weapons do have a lot of velocity, they are still nowhere close to lightspeed. By comparison, HEPlaR is a drive system that is built to expel near-fusion-conditions hydrogen at ludicrous speeds, creating thrust with the side effect of creating a tight fan of high energy plasma that is quite dangerous to the unshielded for thousands of kilometers. This is a beam that requires steady supplies of power and hydrogen. In drive form it is one small step shy of being a fusion rocket.

That speed and the nature of the HEPlaR reactor means that the charged nature of HE plasmas won't be able to act on the beam until it is well down-range. Plenty of range to be a short ranged (in space combat terms) weapon, and lots of energy packed into every millisecond of beam. The range of spread is important, since plasmas are a function of temperature, and once the beam spreads beyond a certain point the particles will cool below plasma temperatures and revert to "hot gas". All ships are built to deal with hot gas to a point, so the beam has ceased to be a weapon at that point. Well, a reliable weapon. A hot gas mass could still cook a sensor dish if it hit it right, but the beam won't even be useful for that for very long.

 

[starfleet]

Plasma actually depends on how it is being done etc etc etc..

raw plasma would have a problem yes, but there are other ways, See B5 which actually worked out a real life way of solving the majority of the problem.. have something that is shot that actually causes the plasma reaction. in the Star Fury and the like's case it's a foam based compound..

But remember plasma occures on just about anything if it gets hot enough so plasma based weapons aren't exactly completely out of luck...


on the other hand we have gravity manipulation so why not things like:

Grasers (See Honorverse)
Tractors
etc etc

Plus we have PA and MESON Spinal mounts.. why not rail guns? I mean there 'easier' to build then the above!

 

[simonh]

Gypsy, I think you're a bit confused. There are definitely charged particle weapons in High Guard (whether silly or not), this discussion is about the absence of turret-mounted fusion guns.

This is a myth. particle weapons strip off electrons before feeding the particles into the accelerator, but arc them back onto the particles at the nozzle mouth, just as current real world ion drives do. The particle exhaust is neutrally chanrged, they're only ions during aceleration.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Vile]

... have something that is shot that actually causes the plasma reaction.

Plasma bolts! :mrgreen: