Hello and a question on fleet building

[Pavlov Grenadier]

Hi all! First time poster in this particular forum although Ive played (and posted in the corresponding forums for) ACTA: B5 and VaS a few years ago. I just received my SF rulebook this weekend and have been reading through the forums for the last week or so. Im part of McKinstry’s gaming group and he recently roped us into ACTA: SF grrrrr :x …so far, it looks great (playing my first game this weekend…cant wait!).

I’ve played many other space battle systems and most have some kind of fleet composition rules ( x amount of small ships allows 1 big ship or something similar). I notice ACTA: SF doesn’t have that and was wondering if anyone has run into any issues (too many small ships, too many big ships, etc.)? My first thoughts are it shouldn’t be a problem (hopefully, the rules will make it such that a balanced fleet will do better most of the time than the “extreme” fleets). Any thoughts/experiences would be welcome.

Thanks!

 

[Captain Jonah]

Well it depends on the fleet you are looking at. :wink:

With 1000 points most people are ending up with 6-7 ships. Less than this and you are facing problems where you match move and firing ship by ship but your enemy then ends up with several ships left to move after all of yours have done so.

Msprange has stated that there are no restrictions on ships; you take what you want to use. Big ships are tougher to take down; smaller ships bring a bit more firepower to the table but go bang much faster.

You can use an entire fleet of FFs (though if you are playing Kzinti expect to be unpopular) but they will explode very fast when your enemy gets in range. Or you can field a DN and a pair of BCs with something small at the back. They will be very tough but you will be constantly out manoeuvred.

With a few games under the belt most people seem to be settling for around 6 or 7 ships with a core of cruiser types.

Try a few fleets at both extremes, if nothing else its good practice :lol:

 

[scoutdad]

The mechanics of the game tend to lead to fleets with approiate mixtures of small / medium / and large units.

During playtesting, we decided to have some fun with it and ran some gmaesthat were one or two large ships against scads of small ships.
And games of two big ships against tow big ships..
And games of scads of small ships against scads of small ships...
and even games of 6 to 7 small, medium, and large ships against either scads of small ships or two really big ships.

In almost all cases, the relatively balenced fleets comprised of a core of medium ships with one or two larger ships and a pack of small ships was the most fun to paly and the most flexible, tactics wise.
Although as has been stated, try it all ways. All it costs is a two hour investment in time to play the game!

 

[Ben2]

I'd build a battlegroup around a battlecruiser flagship. The squadron box and a blister (possibly of frigates) would be all you need for 1000 points, but you'd have a dreadnought spare for when you build up to 2000 points. Most BCs take up almost a quarter of that points total.

What empire were you thinking of playing? Feds and Klingons are both good choices, and with the Klingons taking their dreadnought might be a good idea.

 

[Pavlov Grenadier]

Thanks for all the replies!

What empire were you thinking of playing? Feds and Klingons are both good choices, and with the Klingons taking their dreadnought might be a good idea.

My first fleet will be Kzinti as it seems to be the least controversial :shock:

We have a Fed and Klingon player already and the of the remaining fleet, the Kzinti seem to have some well rounded ships (good def and off combined with nice maneuverability). It will be interesting to see where the "drone discussion" ends up.

Yeah, I noticed the Klingon DN last night…holy cow…that’s a monster!

 

[Ben2]

A fleet I found interesting is the Tholians. I think a mix of cruisers and patrol corvettes (5 cruisers, 2 patrol corvettes) at 1000 points would be a very good mix. I even statted up the SFB variants for patrol corvettes and destroyers, and will do the photon cruiser, the early cruiser and the command cruiser.

The Tholian destroyer isn't the bruiser it is in SFB/FC though (where it has cruiser strength shields) and I feel compared to the cruiser it just doesn't cut it. In fact if you could take unrefitted PCs (ie with web) it'd be a pretty tight competition between a PC swarm and a cruiser force with PC support.

 

[tneva82]

In almost all cases, the relatively balenced fleets comprised of a core of medium ships with one or two larger ships and a pack of small ships was the most fun to paly and the most flexible, tactics wise.
Although as has been stated, try it all ways. All it costs is a two hour investment in time to play the game!

So what has changed in ACTA:SF compared to ACTA:B5 and ACTA:NA where smaller ships rule the day? In NA sweet spot is the destroyers which give you most bang for your bucks. In particular ships larger than that tend to be...Well poor.

 

[Pavlov Grenadier]

So what has changed in ACTA:SF compared to ACTA:B5 and ACTA:NA where smaller ships rule the day? In NA sweet spot is the destroyers which give you most bang for your bucks. In particular ships larger than that tend to be...Well poor.

I cant speak for NA but from my days of B5, the big ships had lots of weapon systems but the vast majority were way too short range (IMO). So yeah, I had this awesome War level ship but only really 1-2 weapons could fire at range. Now compare that with the opposing fleet of a bunch of Centuari Demos (or other skirmish level ship with long range weapon) that was both fast and had lots of turns (not to mention the int sinks). They would never come in range of the big ships. We found the bigs ships in BA to be a big waste.

From my vast expeirence with SF (all of 0 games and a few hours of reading the book :shock: ), it seems most of the big ships have good weapon ranges with decent arcs. My two cents at least.

 

[Ben2]

The important thing in SFU is turning. Cruisers are generally as maneuverable as battlecruisers (Klingons being the exception) and frigates can't take the pounding that cruiser hulls can.

In Noble Armada the ship of choice is the destroyer, which represents the best mix of firepower and durability for the points cost. In SFU it appears to be the cruiser. The exception is the Gorn, where everything above the light cruiser is lumbering, encouraging the use of smaller ships.

 

[McKinstry]

Thanks for all the replies!

What empire were you thinking of playing? Feds and Klingons are both good choices, and with the Klingons taking their dreadnought might be a good idea.

My first fleet will be Kzinti as it seems to be the least controversial :shock:

We have a Fed and Klingon player already and the of the remaining fleet, the Kzinti seem to have some well rounded ships (good def and off combined with nice maneuverability). It will be interesting to see where the "drone discussion" ends up.

I am not a Fed player! I just have them in 2400 but if I can ever be convinced that the drone problem is fixed, I want to be a sleazy, sneaky, plasma them in the back, Romulan.

 

[Pavlov Grenadier]

I am not a Fed player! I just have them in 2400 but if I can ever be convinced that the drone problem is fixed, I want to be a sleazy, sneaky, plasma them in the back, Romulan.

Are drones the issue with Romulans or is something in the cloaking mechanics (assuming there is an issue in the first place )? From the one game I saw you and Joe play, it "seemed" that it was the Romulans moving so slow was the big issue. Thats the part I dont understand yet...its great that you are cloaked but if you cant get into a good position to decloak and fire the big alpha strike, does it matter? I know that was Joe's first game with them but did you even loose a ship? (of course you probably cheated him...har! :wink: ).

 

[McKinstry]

I am not a Fed player! I just have them in 2400 but if I can ever be convinced that the drone problem is fixed, I want to be a sleazy, sneaky, plasma them in the back, Romulan.

Are drones the issue with Romulans or is something in the cloaking mechanics (assuming there is an issue in the first place )? From the one game I saw you and Joe play, it "seemed" that it was the Romulans moving so slow was the big issue. Thats the part I dont understand yet...its great that you are cloaked but if you cant get into a good position to decloak and fire the big alpha strike, does it matter? I know that was Joe's first game with them but did you even loose a ship? (of course you probably cheated him...har! :wink: ).

Joe decloaked a turn too soon but what butchered him was me not worrying about facing with all my drones in turrets. I could whack him with whatever phasers were in arc and every drone in the fleet. I wasted two of his KR cruisers as the Feds and had one ship fire photons once. Also note that my sleazy 'wall o'shuttles' screwed up his approach and made the 6" move much more clunky with 1/3 of the battle space clogged with essentially mobile mines.