G'Koth Trasnport Cruiser

[emperorpenguin]

Please point me to a single one in this thread? One not made by you, that is. Everyone else is talking about now, not 2e.

err Burger the thread is "Should the G'Koth be included?" and the first message by Morgoth explicity asks should it be in 2nd ed....

Hash is correct let's stop repeating arguments ad nauseaum.

 

[Morgoth]

I was wondering if the G'Koth transport cruiser from the Earth Minbari War book is a valid choice for other games, after all it is a non-unique ship and it does mention that some may still be present.

I think you might of misunderstood my meaning EP, no offence meant, I asked if it could be used curently, could it be included currently or failing that would it be in 2nd ed

It would also expand the ship choice for the Narn at Raid level. if its not currently, will it be included in 2nd Ed?

My second question about it being in 2nd ed, seeing whether or not its gonna be included

I realise that its not the best ship available but if it was perhaps refined and given at least spped 6 then I think it would see more use.

this reflects its curernt stats

 

[Burger]

And the 5 pages since that original post, have all been about putting it into S&P and getting it released for 1e.

 

[Reaverman]

Please point me to a single one in this thread? One not made by you, that is. Everyone else is talking about now, not 2e.

err Burger the thread is "Should the G'Koth be included?" and the first message by Morgoth explicity asks should it be in 2nd ed....

Hash is correct let's stop repeating arguments ad nauseaum.

Not wanting to throw fuel on the fire EP, but since you seem readily able to answer everyones opinion. It does give the overall opinion, that you are voice for the company. Maybed thats why the discussions are a bit passionate, these guys are concerned about their own game.

Its just an opinion, so dont bite.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Not wanting to throw fuel on the fire EP, but since you seem readily able to answer everyones opinion. It does give the overall opinion, that you are voice for the company. Maybed thats why the discussions are a bit passionate, these guys are concerned about their own game.

Its just an opinion, so dont bite.

I answered that yesterday, again earlier today
You guys need to stop thinking I am the voice of Mongoose, that is something in your heads, no one else's, you need to get over that, I cannot fix it for you....

As for the ship, just so no one is unclear, I am not against it because I'm anti-Narn or anything! I was pressing for ages for the T'Rakk to get added to the game.
I guess I'm just wary of too many variants.
I thought the tournament list was excellent because there were none. B5 Wars went a bit mad with variants, as did BFG.

I also wish whoever else voted no had given a reason, I hate being the only one who ever has the courage to argue my corner....

 

[Burger]

You guys need to stop thinking I am the voice of Mongoose, that is something in your heads, no one else's, you need to get over that, I cannot fix it for you....

We don't think you are the voice of Mongoose. We've never said that. We know that you are a playtester and that you aren't paid for the great amount of work you put into the game but what you say is in no way "official" because you are not a Mongoose employee.

The point being made is that people who do not know these facts, see what you say as being more official than anything we say because we are not playtesters and you are. In the eyes of a newbie to these forums, who doesn't know Mongoose's playtesting methodology and practices, your words could be taken as Mongoose's POV... especially considering the fact you advertise your playtester status in your sig. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with doing that, just that uninformed newbies could misinterpret it.

 

[emperorpenguin]

We don't think you are the voice of Mongoose. We've never said that. t.

Hash, then Hiffano, then Reaverman all said or implied as such. Now maybe they meant it in the way you said but if I were a newbie on here and I saw the same thing said THREE times and denied three times I'd be wondering

If you guys stop making so much out of it then it won't be an issue. Tank after all is a playtester and supports you guys but I have seen nothing about him having Matt's ear etc etc

 

[Burger]

Well its because you are so vocal and Tank isn't.

Lets just drop it and leave it to the voters to decide.

Oh look, 24 vs 2.

 

[Reaverman]

We don't think you are the voice of Mongoose. We've never said that. t.

Hash, then Hiffano, then Reaverman all said or implied as such. Now maybe they meant it in the way you said but if I were a newbie on here and I saw the same thing said THREE times and denied three times I'd be wondering

If you guys stop making so much out of it then it won't be an issue. Tank after all is a playtester and supports you guys but I have seen nothing about him having Matt's ear etc etc

I said don't bite, and you take my arm off at the elbow :shock:

As for Tank, why are are dragging him into this?

 

[Tank]

At least not on the forums without a pint or 2 :lol:

 

[Reaverman]

At least not on the forums without a pint or 2 :lol:

2 weak Lagers being your upper limit :twisted:

 

[emperorpenguin]

Well its because you are so vocal and Tank isn't..

no it is because I'm against you and Tank isn't...

 

[emperorpenguin]

I said don't bite, and you take my arm off at the elbow :shock:

As for Tank, why are are dragging him into this?

well don't repeat something already categorically denied twice then....

because you have been making a big deal out of me being a playtester, so is tank but because he supports you nothing is said....funny that....

 

[Davesaint]

sorry Mongoose haven't done a Primus raid variant but do you really need one with a Sulust and Prefect sitting there??????and I forgot that the Tertius is such a "non-broken" ship after all. !

and do you need a raid level g'quan with the half dozen ships you have sitting there? Sorry but I just get the sense this is rooted in "our ships aren't good enough at present" and they aren't but that is being addressed in 2nd ed. Until then use the G'koth I say but if you WANT to take a transport ship over what you have in 2nd ed then you are nuts!

Sorry but JPB are not cool - an obscure bad plot device turned into a standard tourney tactic is not in the spirit of the show IMHO nor is it part of a cool game

You are right on the second point but not the first. The JPB wasn't a bad plot device. A plot device is something contrived to fit an episode. We know that given Minbari superiority the Drala Fi would have torn that fleet to shreds anyway without jumping in on top of them, it wasn't a "plot device". Differing White Star speeds or crappy shadow ships are "plot devices" but not what you said sorry.
However it IS too easy and bad gamesmanship. The trouble has always been that it is too easy. From ITB we get the sense that it needs a precise pre-determined location.

I dunno, I'm holding out little hope, EP seems so opposed to it, and has Matts ear more than any of us do, heck, I suspect with what certain playtesters have said about me (Not EP by the way), I may as well be none existent. so I'm not a valueable asset in this Crusade!

drop the conspiracy thing, I stated clearly yesterday this was my opinion and I was debating purely on the grounds that I disagree with the arguments put forward. I haven't Matt's ear, I haven't mentioned this to him and I certainly haven't mentioned you! Why would I have done so? :?

EP - The statement "I don't know why you would want to take x vs what you are going to get in 2ed" really frustrates alot of people. We don't know what we are getting in 2nd Edition. 2nd Edition is some time in the distant future for many of us. We heard alot of this when the discussion regarding Armageddon came out and it only made people frustrated, especially when there were delays in the release. I for one don't want to hear anything about 2nd edition unless their are some details on it such as, The Narn raid level hulls are getting an upgrade to make them balanced against the other races in 2nd edition, so we are not looking at adding a G'quon varrient at raid level. If that was your statement, I would say, OK, I'll wait and see. I understand that the playtesting is still ongoing, so any discussion of individual ships is moot at this point, but the best thing you could do is to provide what direction you are going in the game development. Things like the following:

We are looking at reducing the effectiveness in the beams, which will make ships that don't have them more effective

or

We are looking at upgrading the T'loth so that it is more balanced with the other raid level ships in the game.

That might make these 6-30 page discussions a little bit more civil, and much less frustrating.

Rant off.....


Dave

 

[emperorpenguin]

EP - The statement "I don't know why you would want to take x vs what you are going to get in 2ed" really frustrates alot of people.

in fairness I was pointing out the g'koth is a transport and not a warship!

We don't know what we are getting in 2nd Edition.

and I cannot say. I think there was a certain amount of crossed wires over the 1st ed/2nd ed thing anyway

 

[Reaverman]

I said don't bite, and you take my arm off at the elbow :shock:

As for Tank, why are are dragging him into this?

well don't repeat something already categorically denied twice then....

because you have been making a big deal out of me being a playtester, so is tank but because he supports you nothing is said....funny that....

EP you are making a big deal of it, and you are repeating yourself. I have not said anything against you as a playtester in this thread, get your facts right!

Oh and for the record, we dont give Tank any grief, because he aint shouting his head off every 5 minutes about 2e, and neither does he make a big deal about being a playtester...as you say, "Funny that"

 

[emperorpenguin]

EP you are making a big deal of it, and you are repeating yourself. I have not said anything against you as a playtester in this thread, get your facts right!

you are damn right I am making a big deal out of THREE times having to put people straight when once should be enough.

Not wanting to throw fuel on the fire EP, but since you seem readily able to answer everyones opinion. It does give the overall opinion, that you are voice for the company

You added the third iteration of that same "company man & company voice" thing. As it had been brought up twice before, I get annoyed as it is refreshing something which is patently false and I had thought settled.

Oh and for the record, we dont give Tank any grief, because he aint shouting his head off every 5 minutes about 2e, and neither does he make a big deal about being a playtester...as you say, "Funny that]

And if you guys would stop repeating old and false arguments "company voice" then I wouldn't have to keep "shouting my head off" now would I?
You don't have a go at Tank because he is on your side. I haven't made a big deal out of being a playtester it was others who said my being a playtester would mean no g'koth, they brought it up.
It's not like this is a first either, there was a lot of crap spouted on the VaS forums about playtesters whenever they disagree with you....

 

[Burger]

I just hope all this mud-slinging doesn't affect its chances of getting into S&P...

Its a great ship:
- Well balanced stats, not overpowered at all, comparable to other races Raid ships yet retains the Narn style
- Fills a niche
- Already created by Mongoose
- Mini already exists and every Narn player has some
- Encourages use of a very iconic ship from the show, which currently gets far too little on-table time

Frankly I don't see any down side. Whether or not its in 2e is irrelevant, its too far away to even deserve mention.

 

[Reaverman]

EP you are making a big deal of it, and you are repeating yourself. I have not said anything against you as a playtester in this thread, get your facts right!

you are damn right I am making a big deal out of THREE times having to put people straight when once should be enough.

Not wanting to throw fuel on the fire EP, but since you seem readily able to answer everyones opinion. It does give the overall opinion, that you are voice for the company

You added the third iteration of that same "company man & company voice" thing. As it had been brought up twice before, I get annoyed as it is refreshing something which is patently false and I had thought settled.

Oh and for the record, we don't give Tank any grief, because he ain't shouting his head off every 5 minutes about 2e, and neither does he make a big deal about being a playtester...as you say, "Funny that]

And if you guys would stop repeating old and false arguments "company voice" then I wouldn't have to keep "shouting my head off" now would I?
You don't have a go at Tank because he is on your side. I haven't made a big deal out of being a playtester it was others who said my being a playtester would mean no g'koth, they brought it up.
It's not like this is a first either, there was a lot of crap spouted on the VaS forums about playtesters whenever they disagree with you....

Its a forum mate, everyone is entitled to a comment. I only pointed something, and you as usual went postal. I made no nasty accusations at you, or at MGP.

As for the votes on this thread, at least 9 times as many people voted yes, than no. I am sure that speaks Volumes.

I've been quiet on MGP for one reason, becuase someone got their knickers in a bind over an opinion they did not like. Matt asked me to wind my neck in, and I did. BUT, just becuase I've been quiet, does not mean I have not been reading posts on here.

EP, and other characters on here are driving players off the forum in their droves. From the attitude in your posts, its putting people off (I know quiet a few players off here, and some LGS's have told me too). You are driving a damn good game into the ground because you want the game 'YOUR WAY' and damn the opinion of fellow gamers. I'm also a member of other independent gaming forums, and there has been mention from other players about general overall attitude off here, and the 'Elitist' attitude.

Yes it is funny how the same names crop up, and disagree with you. Yes those same players, also know each other. But maybe, its also because we care a lot about the game, and share a common interest in getting it up there, with all the other games. I for one, would love to hear Rick Priestly, or Jervis Johnson say "I was playing ACTA the other day"!

I for one, have had enough too. Waffle as much as you want, I'm not going to respond, in your mind you are right and I am wrong and lets leave it at that!

 

[emperorpenguin]

Its a forum mate, everyone is entitled to a comment.

but apparently I'm not because "it will seem like a company comment" :roll:

As for the votes on this thread, at least 9 times as many people voted yes, than no. I am sure that speaks Volumes.

and I will argue my case irrespective of numbers if I feel it is right. that isn't the issue at all...

I've been quiet on MGP for one reason, becuase someone got their knickers in a bind over an opinion they did not like

.

or because you didn't like their opinion. Two sides to it....

From the attitude in your posts, its putting people off (I know quiet a few players off here, and some LGS's have told me too). You are driving a damn good game into the ground becuase you want the game 'YOUR WAY' and damn the opinion of fellow gamers

.

:lol: Really!? Somehow I doubt I am that important in the grand scheme of things.....
So because I disagree with the G'koth that means I want the game my way!? :lol: Oh that is funny...

Yes it is funny how the same names crop up, and disagree with you. Yes those same players, also know each other

.

Not just me. Remember I first clashed with you because these same names were attacking another poster over and over again. You attack anyone who disagrees with you. Hell you went "postal" as you say over your buddy taking a lordship to a tournament!

Just drop the company man stuff, I don't get paid.....