lastbesthope
Mongoose
What, I'm being honest. I've seen the term Spitfire coined for Shadow fighters elsewhere, just can't quite remember where.
LBH
LBH
Giving Ancients the Fear Factor
- Thread starter Achiles
- Start date
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
www.B5tech.com
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Shadow Queen said:
I tend to ignore what that site says unless I find supporting evidence from another source.
LBH
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
OK, I have it, 26 mins & 16 secs+ on my DVD. Immediately BEFORE this, three Sky Serpents fly up across the screen. Very clearly and obviously Sky Serpents, Mongoose, where are the Sky Serpents in the scenario, eh? Then three Whitestars fly across bottom-right to top-left (clearly theanimators decided to squadron their ships...), and the rearmost one is splashed in a highly distinctive orange-yellow pattern. Then we see a Shadow Ship move in from the top-right, firing it's beam, and, over it's 'broken-back', we see the three ships you speak of, at 26:18.lastbesthope said:
And, yes, at 26:19, the lead ship does get splashed by a Scout distinctly and obviously firing a Beam weapon...
However... I would dispute that it's a Drazi ship, those look like Whitestars to me, they have the distinctive diamond of highlights, and no visible Drazi 'power egg' at the back, plus, when the lead ship is splashed, it goes in an identical pattern to the earlier Whitestar. Other Drazi hit in the battle break up and bits fly off, but they don't simply explode.
So, full marks to the Scout spotting, nil points to the Drazi identification :lol: :lol:
Wulf
The problem I found with the Shadows and Vorlons isn't their teeth... it's how long they can last. That damage table hurts them the most IMHO.
EDIT: Erk, forgot to explain my idea of a fix...
Basically redo the Shadows and Vorlon damage tables like so.
1 or less: Bulkhead hit.
2-6: 2 damage.
7: 6 + 1d6 damage.
It keeps the criticals so they hurt, but makes the other damage like how other races take damage (1 damage + 1 crew).
EDIT: Erk, forgot to explain my idea of a fix...
Basically redo the Shadows and Vorlon damage tables like so.
1 or less: Bulkhead hit.
2-6: 2 damage.
7: 6 + 1d6 damage.
It keeps the criticals so they hurt, but makes the other damage like how other races take damage (1 damage + 1 crew).
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Wulf Corbett said:
look at the first post on page 2 Wulf, I covered my back see! :wink:
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
Well, I was replying to LBH :lol:emperorpenguin said:
Wulf
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
to be fair to LBH I thought they were Drazi at first!
maybe I'm a drazi too beady little eyes makes it hard to see
maybe I'm a drazi too beady little eyes makes it hard to see
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
Ah, hell, I don't care, I got an excuse to watch the battle scene again. Frame by frame. 5 times.emperorpenguin said:to be fair to LBH I thought they were Drazi at first!
maybe I'm a drazi too beady little eyes makes it hard to see
Wulf
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
i did that last night.....with EVERY battle scene! 
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Wulf Corbett said:
Hey Wulf,
The things I call Drazi are what you call Sky Serpents in your description, so at least I got that bit right. Your description carries on llong after mine gives up.
And it is good to have an excuse to watch the battle scenes again :lol:
LBH
sidewinder
Mongoose
Does anyone know what they were like from B5 wars? I hear the shadows had some kind of damage reduction and the vorlons had shields. why not just put those rules back in?
Achiles
Mongoose
Gack :shock: , alot of posts since I checked a few hours ago. 
But so few people answering the poll 
.
The thing is the Shadows still suffere terribly from the lack of adaptive armour. Even though they are SM and have an extra d6 of S-R they still get chewed up by ships of other races at comparable levels. I may massacre Vorlons but facing Shadows is like fighting a kitten. When my enemies put Shadows and Vorlons on the table I'm not even a little afraid. This holds true with my Narns and ISA. It's the same for the other players and fleets in my group when they face them.
So I think it is conclusive that a scout does fire a MSB. Just giving a Shadow Scout one would be to much. But a varient at raid level would fill the role of main battle line ship at raid and skirmish level battles nicely. So make It just like the Shadow Scout but give it the MSB I suggested above and it loses its PPC and Scout? Call it the Shadow Assasin? The Scout still seems too weak though. Maybe give it Stealth 5+? I mean they are the Shadows. You'd think they should have better stealth tech than the Minbari.
I do like the idea of giving Vorlon Cruisers hull 6. I also like the idea of letting them All Stop and Pivot. The fact that they can't makes it so easy for me to lineup my shots and predict their moves. However giving Twin-linked is just to much. Changing firing arcs has been proposed before as a solution to a number of problems but I have never like it since it messes with a basic game mechanic and it doesn't really seem necessary with the ASaP order and the increased firepower. Giving a few more AD to each ship should be all that is left to finish them off. I would give the Transports and Destroyers +2AD, and the Cruisers +1AD to all weapons. I also think the fighters could do with +1AD. On the issue of a scout why not give the Transport the Scout and Stealth 4+ abilities but no aditional AD?
P.S. I also had always thought the Shadow Ship could only fire out the front but I have been repeatedly told that in many scenes it is shown flying by with the MSB moving along the surface of the ship to keep on target. Ofcourse This source also said Shadow Scouts were never shown firing their weapons in the show so their credibility is in question.
But so few people answering the poll .The thing is the Shadows still suffere terribly from the lack of adaptive armour. Even though they are SM and have an extra d6 of S-R they still get chewed up by ships of other races at comparable levels. I may massacre Vorlons but facing Shadows is like fighting a kitten. When my enemies put Shadows and Vorlons on the table I'm not even a little afraid. This holds true with my Narns and ISA. It's the same for the other players and fleets in my group when they face them.
So I think it is conclusive that a scout does fire a MSB. Just giving a Shadow Scout one would be to much. But a varient at raid level would fill the role of main battle line ship at raid and skirmish level battles nicely. So make It just like the Shadow Scout but give it the MSB I suggested above and it loses its PPC and Scout? Call it the Shadow Assasin? The Scout still seems too weak though. Maybe give it Stealth 5+? I mean they are the Shadows. You'd think they should have better stealth tech than the Minbari.
I do like the idea of giving Vorlon Cruisers hull 6. I also like the idea of letting them All Stop and Pivot. The fact that they can't makes it so easy for me to lineup my shots and predict their moves. However giving Twin-linked is just to much. Changing firing arcs has been proposed before as a solution to a number of problems but I have never like it since it messes with a basic game mechanic and it doesn't really seem necessary with the ASaP order and the increased firepower. Giving a few more AD to each ship should be all that is left to finish them off. I would give the Transports and Destroyers +2AD, and the Cruisers +1AD to all weapons. I also think the fighters could do with +1AD. On the issue of a scout why not give the Transport the Scout and Stealth 4+ abilities but no aditional AD?
P.S. I also had always thought the Shadow Ship could only fire out the front but I have been repeatedly told that in many scenes it is shown flying by with the MSB moving along the surface of the ship to keep on target. Ofcourse This source also said Shadow Scouts were never shown firing their weapons in the show so their credibility is in question.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Achiles said:
your source is wrong there too, we always see Shadow ships turning to bring weapons to bear
bucky_bits
Mongoose
I think this is a good start. I agree with most of your Shadow ideas but on the Main ship with the Molecular Slicer being a Turret Weapon it should be changed to a Front Arc weapon. It was only able to be used from the fron in the show. The Vorlons couls use some more turning or have a Race/Fleet special action that allows them to turn 180 but not fire that turn.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
The Shadow ship in the tourney list is very nasty. It can keep out of main weapon fire arcs with its 12" move. Its slicer beam will gut smaller ships.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Balance said:
To be honest I'm not convinced as to what is a boresight and what's fore arc. Is the white star gun incapable of being aimed in anything other than a straight line? The Sharlins fire from great big long and fixed weapon mounts but they're not boresight. Then of course we see Narn and EA ships firing clearly off the boresight at times. :?
