Giving Ancients the Fear Factor
- Thread starter Achiles
- Start date
Pound for pound Shadows raid level ships leave much to be desired. Because they have no skirmish level ships a price will have to be paid for a sub-par ship. 75 points of damage goes very fast. The Shadow Hunter is their best asset. As far as the Shadow Ship I think it flushes down the toilet just fine. Total joke of a ship.
prelude_to_war
Mongoose
Yikes—tell us how you really feel!
Galaga
Mongoose
True, between two ships with 150 damage and a 5 AD M. Slicer Beam in F arc and 1 ship with 200 damage and a 6 AD M. Slicer Beam in T arc I'll prob take the two shadow hunters unless it is a very large scale game (say a War priority game) and I can afford to field a Shadow Ship next to my Shadow Hunters.
At a five point war I would take:
6 Shadow Hunters
6 Shadow Scouts
Total AD
30 AD Beam, Precise, Super AP, Triple Damage
36 AD Anti-Fighter, Double Damage, Super AP
Total Damage
1,350 points
The Vorlon Heavy Cruiser on the other hand rocks. Great war level ship. You just have to be sure you don't leave your butt out in the open and have a rear guard. At a five point war I would take.
4 Vorlon Heavy Cruisers
6 Patrol (18 flights as rear guard)
6 Shadow Hunters
6 Shadow Scouts
Total AD
30 AD Beam, Precise, Super AP, Triple Damage
36 AD Anti-Fighter, Double Damage, Super AP
Total Damage
1,350 points
The Vorlon Heavy Cruiser on the other hand rocks. Great war level ship. You just have to be sure you don't leave your butt out in the open and have a rear guard. At a five point war I would take.
4 Vorlon Heavy Cruisers
6 Patrol (18 flights as rear guard)
Maksim-Smelchak
Mongoose
Hi Guys,
I haven't been keeping track of the latest developments (Chern will let me know if they're important), but what I've seen of the Ancients isn't very impressive.
In lower priority battles, they don't compete very well.
At higher priority, they do damage, but will be beaten more than half the time.
That's what I've gleaned from my experiences playing the ancients.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
I haven't been keeping track of the latest developments (Chern will let me know if they're important), but what I've seen of the Ancients isn't very impressive.
In lower priority battles, they don't compete very well.
At higher priority, they do damage, but will be beaten more than half the time.
That's what I've gleaned from my experiences playing the ancients.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
sidewinder
Mongoose
Actually after watching a few episodes I think the shadow ship weapon is turreted. In the episode where the starfury pilot takes pictures of one, it turns around and fire, from that notch that I always thought was the rear of the ship. Then in the episode where sheriden take the WS to earth to kill the shadow ship on ganemede afer it wakes up it fires at the ground from the bottom of the ship. Seems to me that the MSB can come from just about anywhere on the main body of the ship.
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
Shadowfax said:
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
sidewinder said:
in which case why do shadow ships TURN to fire in the following episodes? Chrysalis, revelations, coming of shadows, fall of night to name just a few and the shadow ship being chased in shadow dancing doesn't fire on its pursuer?
Galaga
Mongoose
My last three battles with the Shadows (Tournament version) have been overwhelming victories in my favor.
I'd say the Shadows perform pretty good. I definately like how the Shadow hunter performed. The Shadow Scout doesn't do too well against enemies with Interceptors, but is still a decent unit. The Shadow Ship, of course, was a terror to behold, but I find myself thinking I'd rather take two Shadow hunters instead. The Shadow fighters were almsot worthless, but to be honest I WAS facing the Narn, who eat fighters for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with their E-Mines. I could see them being useful in an anti-ship role against races which lack interceptors and decent fighter support.
As a side note the Slicer Beams work decent in an anti-fighter role if you split dice against multiple flights (as I did in the match against the Centauri where a hunter destroyed a couple flights with it's MSB as it had nothing else to shoot at).
- 1st Battle - EA vs Shadows - 5 Point Battle
2 Shadows Ships
2 Shadow Scouts
vs.
1 Warlock
1 Apollo
1 Omega
2 Chronos
First turn I rushed towards his fleet (all three games disalowed keeping units in hyperspace) one of my shadow ships took heavy fire from the Apollo (on CaF) and was reduced to about 50% "health", but the two shadow ships destroyed the Apollo with their MSB effortlessly. The scouts engaged the Chronos and were somewhat ineffective due to good interceptor rolls (and took some decent return fire from the chronos).
In an attempt to remove initiative sinks I moved my shadow ships into the middle of his fleet and they easily destroyed the two chronos with their MSBs, but not before EA fire killed one of the scouts and damaged the wounded shadow ship further.
Third turn saw me using SM to my advantage to position myself in the Omega and Warlock's weaker arcs and I crippled the Warlock with MSB fire (including a no weapons critical). At this point the EA player conceeded the match.
(It is also worth noting that during this entire match my oppenent and I forgot about the Shadow Scout's stealth ability, so it is possible it would not have been destroyed had we remembered it.)
2nd Battle - Centauri vs. Shadows - 5 point Raid
2 Shadow Hunters
1 Shadow Scout
vs.
1 Primus
2 Centurions
2 Vorchans
The stellar debris roll created two large pockets of asteriods in the middle of the playing area which I used to my advantage, skirting the edges of it. Allowing me to avoid the major of Centauri fire (indeed he barely got any attacks off the whole match). First turn I skirted the edge of one of the asteroids with a hunter, allowing me to destroy a Vorchan without the rest of the Centauri fleet being able to shoot back (the asteroids were blocking their field of fire).
The next 2 turns basicaly was the Centauri fleet attempting to manuever to get a shot at me while I continued to skirt the astroids, avoiding him and until I was able to manuever into a position where he could present little return fire. When I finally did make my attack I quickly crippled a Centurion one turn then destroyed the other centurion the next with both hunters (the scout finished off the crippled Centurion). At this point the Primus and remaining Vorchan attempted to open a jump point, but were both destroyed the next turn by the shadow hunters and scout.
3rd Battle - Narn vs. Shadows - 5 Point Skirmish
1 Shadow Hunter
6 Flights of Shadow fighters (3 of them aboard the Hunter)
vs.
3 Ka'Toks
1 Dag'kar
This battle I was expecting to lose, as my fighters would be nearly worthless against a narn and 3 squadroned Ka'Toks could present a lot of firepower against my single Hunter. I started the game by running for a dustcloud at the short edge of the playing field away from the narn, hoping to move from there to an asteroid field near the narn (to use tactics similar to my match against the centauri). E-Mine fire from the Dag'Kar easily crushed the 3 shadow flighters as well as damaged my Hunter (in hindsight I should've seperated the fighters further away from my Hunter). While the Ka'Toks closed in.
Second turn I lost initiative and also determined I would not be able to reach the asteroids and decided to risk rushing the Narn fleet. I had to move first (and he used the Dag'Kar as an initiative sink anyways), and thus the narn was able to boresight the 3 squadroned Ka'Toks (with 2 of them in Mag gun range). The hunter took heavy damage from the 3 Ka'Toks (reduced to less then 50% "health"). I returned fire, splitting my 5 AD between two of the Ka'Toks, destroying one and lightly damaging the other.
The third turn I used my speed movement ability to rush past the Ka'Toks and thus was able to destroy the Dag'Kar with the two Ka'Toks only being able to use their rear pulse arrays.
The fourth turn I used my super manueverabilty to easily position myself behind the Ka'Toks once more (Despite them succesfully using "come about"s) and destroyed one with my MSB. At which point the Narn play conceeded the match.
I'd say the Shadows perform pretty good. I definately like how the Shadow hunter performed. The Shadow Scout doesn't do too well against enemies with Interceptors, but is still a decent unit. The Shadow Ship, of course, was a terror to behold, but I find myself thinking I'd rather take two Shadow hunters instead. The Shadow fighters were almsot worthless, but to be honest I WAS facing the Narn, who eat fighters for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with their E-Mines. I could see them being useful in an anti-ship role against races which lack interceptors and decent fighter support.
As a side note the Slicer Beams work decent in an anti-fighter role if you split dice against multiple flights (as I did in the match against the Centauri where a hunter destroyed a couple flights with it's MSB as it had nothing else to shoot at).
WickedE
Mongoose
Right, I owe you one for that, Blue. Those Shadow's are a terror, but if I'd managed to get some Lasers or Matter cannons on them, I'da killed at least one!!!
And from those three battles, we've come up with a catch-phrase for Blue's Shadow fleet.
"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of all races? The Shadows know."
And from those three battles, we've come up with a catch-phrase for Blue's Shadow fleet.
"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of all races? The Shadows know."
Greg Smith
Mongoose
The Shadows are indeed a terror when played right.
sidewinder
Mongoose
I didn't say they were consistent in the shows, just that I can see why they made it a turret weapon.
Yeah, I decided to try my hand at tournament Vorlons. They don't play nice, that I can say.
5pt Skirmish
2 Vorlon Destroyers
1 Vorlon Transport
vs.
2 Minbari Tigaras
1 Minbari Torotha
Winner: Vorlons, having lost only the Transport and killed everything else.
Vorlons do not fool around with weaponry. Their discharge guns alone are exceedingly dangerous because of the Precise trait. Manueverability, which I thought would be a problem, turned out to be less of a worry than I'd thought. They're no more unwieldy than the EA (which is what I play mostly). It's nice that their Skirmish and Raid ships do have that 90 degree turn though, so when I pulled off Come About! SAs, it was a beautiful thing.
The Adaptive Armor was an extremely irritating thing for my opponent to deal with. Then there was the turn where I cunningly shot out of his firing arcs and ranges to let my ships get a turn of no damage and self-repair.
I only failed one or two Stealth rolls, mostly due to the bonus Vorlons get to beating Stealth.
The transport was lost because of a Tigara declaring Concentrate All Fire! upon it in the first turn. CORRECTION: It took a Tigara declaring CAF! on the transport, plus fire from the other Tigara, to take down the Transport.
I have yet to try out Vorlon Fighters, but just looking at them shows a very deadly sort of fighter that can pop out of hyperspace and swarm enemy capital ships with discharge gun fire.
Incidentally, what happens when an e-mine attack rolls a 1 for damage? Does it get 0 damage because of the -1 it gets?
5pt Skirmish
2 Vorlon Destroyers
1 Vorlon Transport
vs.
2 Minbari Tigaras
1 Minbari Torotha
Winner: Vorlons, having lost only the Transport and killed everything else.
Vorlons do not fool around with weaponry. Their discharge guns alone are exceedingly dangerous because of the Precise trait. Manueverability, which I thought would be a problem, turned out to be less of a worry than I'd thought. They're no more unwieldy than the EA (which is what I play mostly). It's nice that their Skirmish and Raid ships do have that 90 degree turn though, so when I pulled off Come About! SAs, it was a beautiful thing.
The Adaptive Armor was an extremely irritating thing for my opponent to deal with. Then there was the turn where I cunningly shot out of his firing arcs and ranges to let my ships get a turn of no damage and self-repair.
I only failed one or two Stealth rolls, mostly due to the bonus Vorlons get to beating Stealth.
The transport was lost because of a Tigara declaring Concentrate All Fire! upon it in the first turn. CORRECTION: It took a Tigara declaring CAF! on the transport, plus fire from the other Tigara, to take down the Transport.
I have yet to try out Vorlon Fighters, but just looking at them shows a very deadly sort of fighter that can pop out of hyperspace and swarm enemy capital ships with discharge gun fire.
Incidentally, what happens when an e-mine attack rolls a 1 for damage? Does it get 0 damage because of the -1 it gets?
Shadow Queen said:
No, Shadow fighters do not seem to be as affective as some of the other races, points are better spent elsewhere. 6 Hunters and 6 Scouts provide a very flexable force in both ship popping, anti-fighter screen, and to negate stealth of apposing fleets. The only fleet fighters should be a must against is the Vorlons. Once they get into the side or rear arc without cover fire they can't get rid of them. This is why Vorlons should always take fighters as a rear guard. Once those threats are neutralized charge them in against the big guns. 1 AD, Anti-Fighter, AP, Beam, Precise from Vorlon fighters can do some real damage so long as they don't get into a dogfight. On the other hand the Shadow Fighter has no bonus to dogfight as well as no anti-fighter weapons. The 2 AD, AP, Double Damage is best against larger ships. In that roll points are better spent on Shadow Scouts or Hunters.
anyone else find it somewhat ironic that Shadow ships are deadly in moving into the shadow u cast, in this case the backside. guess thats the rule of thumb. where they cast a shadow is where u lurk, make them mindful of the dark and dictate where they can cast their shadow.
this is universal but it seem that they thrive on it literally
this is universal but it seem that they thrive on it literally
Gunnvaldr said:
This is what really makes them deadly. Staying in the weaker arcs of an apponent can really be frustrating for them. Thanks to the tourney rules thay are no longer made of paper and are a more viable force. Last night I played two 1 point wars. The first one was 1 Bin'Tak vs. 1 Shadow Ship This was death by a thousand cuts. Any time he got me into is front arc I took massive damage but so long as I stayed in his side arc and out of range. How shall I say this. "A little slice here a little cut there". After enough cuts I bled him to death. The second Fight was 1 Bin'Tak against a Vorlon Heavy Cruiser. The Bin'Tak won but by that turn he had 12 points of damage left and I had 10. The initiative roll decided the victor.
