Fixed Mounts?

[snrdg121408]

Hello Nerhesi,

A Firmpoint, is just a hardpoint with a following modifications, as indicated by raw:
a) It can only hold 1 weapon, whether it is a single turret or a fixed mount.
b) Its range is severely reduced as per the rules.
c) It consumes only 75% of the power.

So that is right - same size as per hardpoint rules. Cost is the same - but it obviously needs a change.

I do concede that we need some common language up in here.

MgT HG 2e PDF downloaded 09/01/16
Page 23 "Small Craft
Ships of less than 100 tons have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints. A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret."

Reviewing the small craft record sheets for the heavy fighter p. 102 and troop transport p. 104 each hull has firmpoints with a cost of MCr0.1 for each one installed after subtracting the cost of the weapons installed.

The gig's record sheet p. 94 suggests that upgrading to a turret does not require a firmpoint since the installed single turret is empty requires 1 d-ton and costs MCr0.2. If a firmpoint is installed based on the heavy fighter and troop transport the single turret should cost MCr0.3.

The evidence above does not suggest to me that "A Firmpoint, is just a hardpoint with a following modifications, as indicated by raw:..." or "So that is right - same size as per hardpoint rules. Cost is the same - but it obviously needs a change."

From the available data a firmpoint has the same size and cost as a fixed mount but is limited to the installation of a one turret class weapon per firmpoint. A single barbette requires two firmpoints.

 

[Nerhesi]

Hopefully I understood you snrdg121408:

Page 94 - Gig has a 1-ton turret. Turret is empty. Great - seems ok.

Page 102 - Heavy Fighter - Firmpoints do not have a tonnage cost.
Page 104 - Troop Transport - as above.

This would indicate to me that these firmpoint weapons are fixed mounts (forward facing).

Lets approach this from the basic concept.
A Hardpoint or a Firmpoint is *thingy* that you mount a weapon. The types of weapons and what *thingy* they can be connected to are:

A fixed mount containing 1-3 pulse/beam/drills/missile racks. A firmpoint can only have 1 (not 1-3).
A single turret.
A double turret. (Hardpoint only)
A triple turret. (Hardpoint only)
A quad turret (Hardpoint AND advanced/high tech/optional rules only).
A barbette (1 hardpoint or 2 firm points)
Small Bay (1 hardpoint)
Medium Bay (1 hardpoint)
Large bay (5 hardpoints)
Spinal Weapon (X hardpoints)

 

[snrdg121408]

Afternoon PST Nershei:

Thank you for the reply.

Hopefully I understood you snrdg121408:

Page 94 - Gig has a 1-ton turret. Turret is empty. Great - seems ok.

Page 102 - Heavy Fighter - Firmpoints do not have a tonnage cost.
Page 104 - Troop Transport - as above.

This would indicate to me that these firmpoint weapons are fixed mounts (forward facing).

Lets approach this from the basic concept.
A Hardpoint or a Firmpoint is *thingy* that you mount a weapon. The types of weapons and what *thingy* they can be connected to are:

A fixed mount containing 1-3 pulse/beam/drills/missile racks. A firmpoint can only have 1 (not 1-3).
A single turret.
A double turret. (Hardpoint only)
A triple turret. (Hardpoint only)
A quad turret (Hardpoint AND advanced/high tech/optional rules only).
A barbette (1 hardpoint or 2 firm points)
Small Bay (1 hardpoint)
Medium Bay (1 hardpoint)
Large bay (5 hardpoints)
Spinal Weapon (X hardpoints)

I agree that a firmpoint is a fixed mount and is probably facing forward which is used to mount a weapon supported by the text on p. 23:

"A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret."

I agree, bummed out about firmpoint's not being able mount three powered down and ranged shortened turret class weapons, with the configurations listed above. I think web gremlins removed the sandcaster in the fixed mount and firmpoint list.

I disagree that "A Firmpoint, is just a hardpoint..." or that a firmpoint has the same cost as a hardpoint based on the heavy fighter and troop transport.

The Heavy Fighter's Weapons entry, p. 102, is Firmpoint (Missile Rack) with a cost of MCr0.85. A Missile Rack has a cost of MCr0.75, p. 25, subtracting the missile rack cost leaves a balance of MCr0.1. The only other component is the firmpoint which would appear to cost MCr0.1.

The Gig, p. 93, mounts a Single Turret (Empty) has a cost of MCr0.2 which is the cost of a single turret and does not appear to require a firmpoint to attach to the hull.

Thank you very much for the clarifications which shows that I may be getting a handle on most of the small craft armament rules.

 

[Nerhesi]

It was a balance decision snrdg

A 80 ton assault craft, mounting a 16g rocket thruster and 9g m-drive, would be able to rush in to dogfight range, and unlease 2D6+4 AP2 (focuses improvement) with a +2 to hit triple-fixed pulse laser. THREE times.

Effectively, 2D+8 from each "firmpoint fixed mount". That is an 80-ton craft packing 6D+24 (-armour 3 times)

I dare not think of what kind of missile platform this could be (9 missiles a turn per craft).

Logically incongruent with limiting a scout for example to 1 hardpoint.

We are bound by the hardpoint system, so we need to find a way to meaningful choices within that system