First Impressions

Sigtrygg

Emperor Mongoose
I am impressed by this book. Well done to all involved.

I have only had the chance to skim through a couple of times and I really like what I am reading

two things, ok three...

a neutrino sensor? really? We will have fusion rockets and possibly power plants long before a small neutrino sensor

where is the setting material, the referee's guide to scenarios and encounters

Oh, and if you want a game with no combat rules :) rename the combat skill and combat section to conflict :)

Two of these are minor nit picks, but the lack of "what to do in this setting" needs addressing
 
We have neutrino sensors right now: a big tank with lots of cameras looking for little flashes of light. If you want to waste 10 tons on one....
 
The point I am making is that neutrino sensors can not be miniaturised to 10 tons with projected near future technology, whereas near future technology projections do include a fusion rocket.
 
You are probably right... should be more like 1000 tons (a 10 x 10 x10 cube of water) minimum (or more than three times as heavy if it was xenon), and so should be taken out. The focus is on tech that can be built now or at least works on the lab bench, so fission, yes, plasma (VASIMR anyway), yes. Fusion, still need to work out a bunch of kinks - and it would also have a 100+ ton problem - not to mention bremsstrahlung, excess neutrons, fuel supply (if using He3 to keep the neutrons low) - I know you can work a fusion drive even without a break-even fusion reactor, but we're just not there yet. I pulled the tech back to what could be built in about the next 15 years, or in operation before 2040. Well, not by NASA, they'll probably still be recertifying RS-25 engines... (okay, that's only partially fair - they will at least have new and not reused ones after Artemis IV).
 
There could be a lot of things... from watching some of the Interstellar Research Group presentations from this summer,
I don't see it (fusion drives) happening that soon.

And non-negatable thrust at high isp requires an insane amount of power, which requires insane amounts of radiators - and something better than ammonia for a fluid. There's a whole stack of technologies that have to work. (An Orion-type rocket is actually much easier, but the whole nukes out the back thing seems to turn people off for some reason)

The whole predicting the future thing is hard, though. SpaceX's Starship puts us at a true inflection point - assuming it isn't another N1.
 
Two of these are minor nit picks, but the lack of "what to do in this setting" needs addressing
All that is in there now is the Campaign Ideas section, which I admit is very generic. And an into adventure in the back, which is very specific. This probably needs some guidance from Matt. I'm of two or three minds on this.

First, I'm not sure a 'Pioneer Universe' like the Third Imperium or 23300AD is the way to go for something so near future as to be obsolete (or parallel universe) by the time a book hits prints - and our friends over at SpaceX (and Rocket Labs, and whoever comes out of the sea of startups and actually gets something new and different to work) are not making that easier.

Second, what's the greater interest: sandbox (which is what we've built) or adventures (which are littler books) or campaigns (bigger books, sets of books, etc). As it is, we're looking at a First to Mars adventure book and an slightly later tech open-up-the-outer system sort of book (At least that's my thought - maybe then there's a fusion drive). I'm a sandbox sort of guy, and honestly every Traveller (or D&D, or Runequest, or a few others) campaign I've been in has been homebrew (LBB-based mostly to be truthful - though I did run a solo PoD that got me back focused on Traveller - so that's 3I).

Third mind is: if there is more focus on a specific setting, how fictionalized does it need to be to avoid throwing Elon Musk or a pile of trademark lawyers into the mix?

I'm also an old school Lego person: Give me a giant box of plastic and let me build stuff with it. Not doing those kits (okay, I have a few kits, but consistency is for wimps). So I guess I'm reflecting the question back: 'What do you want to do" - here's a pile of tools and parts. How much blueprint do you want or need? (Yes, I'm speaking as a creator, not someone who has to sell stuff to people - so like I said, Matt should probably weigh in) .
 
Don't set it thirty years in the future, fifty gives more wiggle room and avoids the T2000->T2300 issue.

How about some guidance of who the players in the space race are likely to be in the next couple of decades
to which you can add the private companies...
then some sort of guidance on how to write your own future history
first steps
the great race
industrialisation
settlement
 
When I wrote my own future history years ago, I purposely started in 2052 and the end of the 'Last World War'. Giant reset button, and I figured I would be old enough not to care by then. Then one of my grandfathers hung with most brain cells intact until he was 100, so I might have screwed that up too. Plus, I bet on the Japanese being the antagonists, not the Chinese. But it was the 80s and Canada had more GNP than China.

The timeline guidance you give is a good idea. Pioneer is at 10-20 years in the future as written. If that's entirely off the mark, then the tech needs to ratchet up a bit and beanstalks come into play, potentially (I mean at Earth, we could do the Moon and probably Mars with right now with Kevlar and spider silk... and a lot of money). The Mars mission book should be set in the 30s.
 
No, beanstalks are still an engineering impossibility, except possibly for the Moon. - skyhooks and the like less so.

How common is space travel going to be in the timeframe you imagine?

How far towards Lunar and Mars stations and bases?

Orbital hotels, space tourism, Lagrange point stations, cyclers, O neil cylinder construction, space based power satellites, asteroid mining, factories in space... do you think all of that will be 20 to 30 years or 50 or 100?
 
We need to keep a tight(ish) focus on the setting, partly to keep the rulebook under control (big books scare the willies out of some people!), and partly because this is a game about 'firsts'... and if we advance the timeline too much then a lot of firsts will have been taken for granted. No reason we cannot expand the timeline later, but let's get the core going first.

My current vision (and, as always, subject to change for a better idea) is a sandbox rulebook expanded with campaign books - Geir mentioned that 'first to Mars' book which we are currently intending to be the first (should also mention that, at this time, we intend for that Mars book to be released simultaneously with the core book).

As for how common space travel will be in this timeframe... we can be flexible and say technology can be what we believe is possible if not entirely likely, if it helps the storyline. The storyline will be that the Pioneers (players) are the first to do stuff. Whatever it may be.

That will be the core book. We can always expand from there.
 
Just what is your concept for who the PCs are and how they get to be the first to do this stuff? Astronauts tend to be the best of the best, not random lifepath generated lucky Travellers.

What is your vision for stuff for the PCs to do?

Orbital construction crew living in an inflatable station building the first permanent space station?

Moon base construction crew building a station, lunar colony construction, lunar industry construction.

First mission to mars, Mars base construction crew building a station, Mars colony construction, Mars industry construction.

This needs guidlines at the very least for the referee,

I would suggest having an introductory adventure and a campaign guide ready to go at the same time as the core rule book.
 
There is an introductory adventure in the back, but it is a nearish future one-off - though a Referee could expand it to fit into a campaign. Even today, there's a mix of people flying - let's ignore the suborbital and just look at Axiom: NASA insists on one of their former astronauts (best of the best - there's a career for that, if you can roll 15 on 2D), because it's going to the ISS, but the other three can be anyone. And as for Crew Dragon - Isaacman has already signed up for three flights - the last actually Starship, if the Fish and Wildlife people end up up approving the deluge system before the government shuts down again (okay, no more commentary on that, Geir).

Pioneer is something Matt asked me to 'Traveller-ify' some more. And I wanted to do hard science fiction, without waving any hands. I chose to stick with relatively mature technology, because that's what I think will fly. (Yes, I watched the Pulsar cartoon - no radiators, no concept of how to store cryogenic hydrogen, no mention of the tiny thrust they'd get or even how they're shielding that reactor. And four years from now, they'd still be filling out paperwork to allow a nuclear reactor to fly in space, much less building one. I'm sure they make nice ion thrusters, though).

The third iteration of my rethink came while stuck in a place where I could not write much, but was able to binge-watch For All Mankind. Which, ironically, though set in an alternate 20th century with fusion power, pretty much covered 'things we know how to build' except the fusion reactor - which predisposed a lot of lunar assets and H3 mining. Their race to Mars in the third season (almost realistic, except that NASA nuclear shuttle, and the fusion drive, but still, a lot closer than most. The Russian design was realistic, and look where that got them. Not sure how those Koreans expected to get off the Red planet though - sorry, tangent) was a good template for that Mars book (I want to mock-up a pork-chop plot for 2033 - but since Matt already made me put the formulas in the back of the book, that might be a stretch). Other than updated NERVA or higher-powered ion/plasma , I don't see nukes taking us to Mars anytime soon. Tellingly, SpaceX isn't even planning to go down that road - conventional engines all the way.

So to answer the 'what do we want to see', it makes sense to focus on that 10-year-out possibility for the Mars mission (well, maybe 8 by the time it goes to print). And back to the For All Mankind template - look at what NASA had planned post-Apollo, at least in the late 60s - the infrastructure was based on what a Saturn V or a 'routine' shuttle ecosystem could build. Well, that didn't pan out because it was essentially unaffordable (and the shuttle wasn't anything like what was hoped) back then, but now, if Starship flies, we will have have that. If it doesn't fly we will still have Falcon and Falcon heavy, and probably a couple of Chinese clones, and Neutron out of Rocket Lab. And then Blue Origin because Bezos might be slow, but he is relentless.com (sorry, odd reference) and some dark horse out of the dozens of PowerPoint and Spreadsheet designers with a graphics department.

So what for Pioneers to do in Pioneer? Mars Race, Near Earth Asteroid mining - or at least prospecting, Moon bases, private orbital stations.
Another mental template of the tech is the first half of Seveneves by Neal Stephenson, well except the parts about the moon blowing up and the backhanded character assassinations of thinly disguised actual people.

As for thinly disguised actual things, I did thinly disguise and fictionalise things like Starship and a variety of smaller at least partially reusable launch vehicles. Modularised most things into Lego-ish 5,10, 20 ton blocks, snuck in the framework for a design system (and then used it to design stuff - so I won't have to retcon designs). But maybe a step-through build of a Lego spaceship kit would be a good addition (oh, and I also realised I forgot to include a stackable Fregat-clone upper stage - and probably should not have cut out the nasty storable propellant option - better performance).

Alright, that's a lot of gibbering for a Friday morning. I had to put my asides in italics - I do actual proof-read most posts, so, yeah. Need to watch the caffeine intake.
 
Some thoughts.
For first steps inspiration:
First Man - reimaged to first mission to Mars.
Apollo 13 reimaged as a disaster on the way to Mars
The Martian
For All Mankind - reimaged and set on Mars
Space Island One (TV series)
Mars (TV series)
 
The Great Race begins when several counties and/or companies have established Earth orbit stations, a Moon station and base, manufacturing in orbit and on the Moon. This phase is basically characterised by being able to build stuff in space rather than assemble parts made on Earth, which allows for missions to the near Earth asteroids to harvest mineral wealth.

By the way how are you going to deal with robots, drones AI etc which will also have 30 years advancement....
 
My current vision (and, as always, subject to change for a better idea) is a sandbox rulebook expanded with campaign books - Geir mentioned that 'first to Mars' book which we are currently intending to be the first (should also mention that, at this time, we intend for that Mars book to be released simultaneously with the core book).

In quite a few SF settings I enjoy there is a major plot of an "Independent Mars" free from the yoke of its Terran Oppressors (Babylon 5, The Expanse, even WH40K), is this something that will be mentioned in the Mars book? (Colonies and outlying settlements gaining independance from Earth.)
 
So what for Pioneers to do in Pioneer? Mars Race, Near Earth Asteroid mining - or at least prospecting, Moon bases, private orbital stations.
Another mental template of the tech is the first half of Seveneves by Neal Stephenson, well except the parts about the moon blowing up and the backhanded character assassinations of thinly disguised actual people.

Does Piracy/Pirates make any conceptional or economic sense in this kind of setting?

MegaCorps and their shady "Shadowrunner" type missions seems like a good fit for these years in the "great space race", but I am not sure given the hard SF approach to this setting that being a Pirate is something that makes sense or is even economicaly viable?
 
In order for a mars colony to declare independence it would first have to be completely self sufficient with regards to food production and industrial development.
Not likely to happen in 30 to 50 years from now.
 
Nor is piracy, though I can imagine poaching and ensuing litigation about claims, and all sorts of Moon treaty-like controversies between commercial entities and governments. But Pioneer:Legal is not a game I want to play. Though 'accidently deactivating' someone's claim beacon wouldn't beyond the realm of possibility.
 
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