Firmpoints & Smallcraft

[Nerhesi]

I like it! hahah Ok - real feedback time:

We wouldn't want to limit the "firmpoint turret type" to single turret only. I think we would want to say: "A Firmpoint on a small craft can house any turret or barbette with the following changes applied:" (Keeping the same restrictions as is)

If someone wants to mount 3 x Triple pulse lasers firmpoint on a 70+ ton craft, so be it. They are limited to Adjacent or Close range at best, require a respectable amount of power, and are not overpowered compared to vehicle weapons at all (2D+4 each at best)

An important aspect of this is the creation of meaningful choices along the lines of.. "Hmm.. do I mount a barbette plus triple pulse firm points? or just 3 triple pulses? or do I do Torp and Triple pulse?" etc.. without it, you end up with cookie cutter 1 pulse or missile, 1 barbette then 1 barbette+1 pulse or missile.

 

[Chas]

I think a key issue is this sentence

Ships of less than 100 tons have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints. A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret.

Just what is meant by "upgraded to a single turret" is not optimal wording. It could be taken in a number of ways i.e. you can get an actual turret on each of your firmpoints, which I assume is not the intention.

In the descriptive points made this would seem to make sense. As I read it you can get:
- 1 turret weapon of any sort on any firmpoint
- 1 barbette for 2 firmpoints
- You can mix weapons across 3 firm points in small craft as you wish using the rules for turret multiple similar weapons.
- You can only mount 1 turret weapon on a firmmount in small craft.

The last two points are not explicitly stated and perhaps should be.

It gets confusing when right after this section it is stated how one firmpoint takes up 1 hardpoint and can have 3 weapons on it.

I'd make a suggestion to keep the bigger ship firm points the same as small craft. Just needs a tweak in the write up to perhaps say you can swap 1 hardpoint for 3 firmpoints, using the firmpoint rules for the weapons mounted. So large craft have the option to include the Close range weapon barbettes at reduced power costs and get to include an additional Close range weapon effectively for free (they'll get no effective advantage vs turret weapons unless we are talking a power saving for lasers)

 

[Nerhesi]

I also deleted and rewrote my original post due to the above confusion... for a second I thought you could have a full sized turret, then I realised it was just talking about limiting the firm-points to either a Single Turret or a Single Barbette.

In fact, we can sum up the entire section as these points:

- 1 Turret of any sort can be converted to a firmpoint (single, double, triple, pop-up etc)
- 1 Barbette can be converted to 2 firmpoints
- Weapons of Medium range or less are reduced to Adjacent range.
- Weapons of greater range are reduced to Close range.
- A weapon on a Firmpoint may not have its range increased beyond Close by any means.
- Power requirements of the weapon are reduced by 25% (rounding up).

- Exceptions for Missiles/Torpedos? Requires some thought - the simplest way I can think of would be to simply allow Missiles/Torpedos to be carried independently. Such as 6 missiles/3 torpedos per firmpoint (with each firmpoint taking up one ton)

Im guessing the original intent was to allow only "single" turrets, but that limitation is definitely not needed. In fact, I would say the opposite is required to maintain alignment with hardpoints, and allow for more options in outfitting your smallcraft.

 

[Chas]

I was just going to point out the exception needed for missiles and torpedoes on the range requirement to allow them to be fired at the ranges they are normally not allowed.

But perhaps it may be simpler having these being fired at normal ranges. So the torpedo bomber is a different animal.

The firmpoint missile and torp total quantities stored are noted in the text below. 8 and 2 respectively as firmpoint barbettes. Not too far off I think. You could devote cargo space for extra as a conscious build choice...

 

[Chas]

Costs of firmpoint barbette weapons will need a serious rejig :!:

 

[Nerhesi]

Costs of firmpoint barbette weapons will need a serious rejig :!:

Yup. Obviously shouldn't cost the same lol

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

We wanted turrets allowable on small craft to make the Devastatir torpedo bomber/Stuka kind of boat. However, we have to limit them to single turrets or they will start sprouting more weapons than a ship...

This seemed like a good halfway measure.

 

[Condottiere]

I've always thought that pintle mounts like on the Millenium Falcon should be an option, though in theory the Falcon is a larger jump capable ship.

 

[Condottiere]

If you really want a torpedo bomber in a smallcraft, the design rules will have to be uninstalled regarding torpedo barbettes, and Mongoose First rule of one torpedo per firmpoint be reintroduced.

 

[Jeraa]

I've always thought that pintle mounts like on the Millenium Falcon should be an option, though in theory the Falcon is a larger jump capable ship.

As far as I am aware, they are. The weapons Han and Luke use against the TIE fighters are regular turrets (quad pulse laser turrets). The pop-down gun used against the stormtroopers is covered by the smaller weapon rules on High Guard 2e page 32 (or High Guard 1e page 61).

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello Nerhesi,

I also deleted and rewrote my original post due to the above confusion... for a second I thought you could have a full sized turret, then I realised it was just talking about limiting the firm-points to either a Single Turret or a Single Barbette.

In fact, we can sum up the entire section as these points:

- 1 Turret of any sort can be converted to a firmpoint (single, double, triple, pop-up etc)
- 1 Barbette can be converted to 2 firmpoints
- Weapons of Medium range or less are reduced to Adjacent range.
- Weapons of greater range are reduced to Close range.
- A weapon on a Firmpoint may not have its range increased beyond Close by any means.
- Power requirements of the weapon are reduced by 25% (rounding up).

- Exceptions for Missiles/Torpedos? Requires some thought - the simplest way I can think of would be to simply allow Missiles/Torpedos to be carried independently. Such as 6 missiles/3 torpedos per firmpoint (with each firmpoint taking up one ton)

Im guessing the original intent was to allow only "single" turrets, but that limitation is definitely not needed. In fact, I would say the opposite is required to maintain alignment with hardpoints, and allow for more options in outfitting your smallcraft.

What is met by converting a turret or barbette to one or two firmpoints?

MgT HG 2e. p. 23 "Small Craft
Ships of less than 100 tons have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints. A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret.

A weapon mounted upon a Firmpoint has the following changes applied to it.

Barbettes consume two Firmpoints."

My impression is that firmpoints and turrets are types of hardware installed on the, in this case, small craft. My military and computer support experience with hardware "upgrades" resulted in replacing old hardware with new and in theory improved hardware.

My take from the under lined text above is that the turret replaces the firmpoint.

My initial thought is that a barbette is installed on two firmpoints. After reading the material here I am leaning towards a barbette replaces two firmpoints. Small craft between 37 and 70 d-tons can only carry one barbette, while hull > 70 and < 100 d-tons could carry one barbette and either a firmpoint or a single weapon turret.

Probably off-topic:

Traveller is a possible future which for some reason only allows mounting of a three firmpoints with one turret class weapon on each of them, three single weapon turrets, or one barbette, or one barbette mixed with a firmpoint or a single weapon turret. The firmpoints/hardpoints on the antique aircraft of today which is vaguely included in the Traveller timeline can carry more ordnance and a mix of other stuff.

From a different thread the indication was that MgT HG 2e small craft could mount up three turret class weapons on a firmpoint which in my opinion is more realistic based on today's modern aircraft. With the clarifications my dreams of a small craft carrying a load like a Hornet or Falcon fighter has been dashed again. Bummer.